Democrats versus Republicans

[erps]

Rationing is not getting as much as you want when you want it.

I disagree but for the sake of argument, do you really think there will be less rationing if the government gets involved?

Failing that, their incentive is to NOT PAY for any care they can escape paying for. As a result they hire armies of assholes to give us all a hard time. We pay their salaries out of our premiums.

So we would be replacing the insurance company assholes with government assholes? Wonder which ones will cost us more?

People are afraid to change. I get that. People dont trust the government. Sure, if you refuse to pay enough for the services you want, you wont get very good services. But that doesnt mean it cant be done because lots of other countries are doing it. Many people who object to change do so out of mistaken beliefs that it doesnt work in other countries. Usually that is because either they dont know anything about non-English speaking countries (and there ARE things not to like about the Canadian and Brit systems) and/or they have never been there and checked it out.

You miss the main reason. People want the freedom to choose. Are you against that?

[PBzeer]

What you apparently don't realize you're saying sck, is that you don't want to make a choice between your wants and needs.

[sck5]

No

Somebody else would NOT be paying my tab. Why do you think that? If we can get the same or better health care for half the price EVERYBODY will be paying LESS not more. As for the government being incompetent, they do better with my parents' medicare than the insurance company does.

You are arguing an ideological point. You take it as an article of faith that the government can never do anything right. Nonsense. They sure do OK with social security and have for decades. They do OK with the military and have forever. They do OK with medicare. The list could go on. It is a common right wing ploy to starve programs of money, staff them with people who dont believe in them and then point at them and say they dont work. Hypocrisy is what that is.

[sck5]

"People want the freedom to choose. Are you against that?"

That is exactly why to have universal insurance but leave the doctors and hospitals private. Choose whichever one you want. If you dont like the government insurance then choose a private plan. That is how the systems in other countries work. There is choice on every level. What we DONT have is the choice of a cheap insurance plan run for everyone's benefit and not for stockholders. THAT is the problem. I want insurance that WANTS to cover my needs, not that tries as hard as it can NOT to cover me. Not only is it better, but its cheaper too. In every country that has a universal insurance plan for basic medical needs, people choose that plan and dont choose private ones. Why? Because the government plans are cheaper and give the same service. The only exceptions are where the plan is underfunded (e.g. Canada)

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by sck5

They sure do OK with social security and have for decades.

Discounting the fact they've raided the SS Trust Fund ... sure, they seem to be able to write bad checks.

[sck5]

So we would be replacing the insurance company assholes with government assholes? Wonder which ones will cost us more?


You dont have to wonder. The insurance companies cost more. There are a dozen examples that prove it, including our own medicare. Why do you think there are no private plans for medicare covered services? Because it is cheaper to do via medicare.

[sck5]

"sure, they seem to be able to write bad checks."

hey, none of mine have bounced (yet)

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by sck5

"sure, they seem to be able to write bad checks."

hey, none of mine have bounced (yet)

Yes they are good at robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[painkiller]

Originally Posted by sck5

No

Somebody else would NOT be paying my tab. Why do you think that? If we can get the same or better health care for half the price EVERYBODY will be paying LESS not more. As for the government being incompetent, they do better with my parents' medicare than the insurance company does.

You are arguing an ideological point. You take it as an article of faith that the government can never do anything right. Nonsense. They sure do OK with social security and have for decades. They do OK with the military and have forever. They do OK with medicare. The list could go on. It is a common right wing ploy to starve programs of money, staff them with people who dont believe in them and then point at them and say they dont work. Hypocrisy is what that is.

They do OK with social security? I've heard many complaints from seniors who don't feel they get what they need. Benefits are too low. The program limits them from taking side jobs or they have to make life decisions based on whether or not they would qualify for benefits. Ridiculous. Meanwhile, the government takes a huge chunk of my paycheck for what will most likely end up being nothing later on. Same with Medicare. I'm paying for my own insurance plus someone else's.

The government may be good at writing and mailing the Social Security checks, but I would not call other aspects of the program successful.

As far as me being right-wing, you are wrong. I don't trust either party to provide anything for me or to improve my life. They both find ways to intrude in my life. I'd much prefer a government whose only social program was keeping the justice system fair and the borders defended.

[wind_magic]

Since Obama seems determined to be on television every day, they need to give him his own time slot so people can Tivo it .. call it Economy Hour w/ President Obama or something ..