Democrats versus Republicans

[sck5]

and there you have the conservative mindset. Could things ever be different than they are now? I cant even imagine it!!! Therefore it is foolish to even try.

So, to follow that logic we all need to chase an ever dwindling supply of oil until all of our cars grind to a halt. What a forward looking view!!! Nobody thinks things will change fast. But they WILL change sooner or later. Apparently it hasnt ever occured to you guys that we didnt always get our energy from oil. In the 1800's (and even into the 1900's) it was primarily coal. Before that it was wood. There is no question that sooner or later we will switch away from oil - Who do you want to be on the forefront of that change, selling the rest of the world the best technology?
Apparently, you conservatives are voting for the Koreans or the Chinese. I would rather it be us.

[Dick Pluta]

Once upon a time in America there was a company, Widget Corporation of America (WCA), which made widgets. WCA made only the finest widgets, fabricated from high quality stainless steel. Because widgets were an item with high potential for misuse, their sale was strictly regulated by a government agency, the Widget Regulatory Commission (WRC). Again, because of the potential of misuse of widgets, WCA screened their users very carefully to ensure that only qualified users could get widgets. Only those clients that met the high standards set by the WRC were allowed to buy widgets. All was well in the widget world. Widgets were only given to those who met the standards of the WRC and were almost always used responsibly. In those rare cases where widget ownership was abused the widgets were repossessed and resold to other widget users who took their ownership seriously.

After a time, those in Congress noticed that widget ownership was a desirable thing and looked for ways to increase widget ownership. Owning one’s own widget became a symbol of the American Dream. One of the things that prevented more widespread widget ownership was the standards for buyers imposed by the WRC. These standards wrongfully limited the number of people who could buy widgets, demanding that they have things like down payments, jobs and verifiable income. Congress passed the Widget Redevelopment Act, which required the WRC to revise the widget standard to allow more people to realize the American Dream.

As widget demand skyrocketed a whole new industry developed, the widget broker. These brokers targeted the less qualified widget buyers and created a whole new source of funding their purchases. These were Widget Derivative Funds (WDFs). The WDFs “bundled” the purchases of widgets by less qualified buyers and sold them to investors. The price of widgets went through the roof and the investors made a fortune. The brokers also grew rich on commissions and placement fees.

In the meanwhile, an enterprising manure salesman showed up at American Widget. He showed the CEO of WCA that a functional widget could be made from compressed manure. It wasn’t as good as the stainless steel ones, but it worked for a while. The buyers of these low end widgets could use them for a year or two before their purchase of a low end widget caught up to them. Still, they had a widget for a couple of years and, since they didn’t have on to begin with and didn't have anything invested in them there was nothing lost, anyway. WCA stock went through the roof and manure sales skyrocketed, together with the price of used widgets. WCA’s manure inventory skyrocketed as well. Owners of widgets refinanced the old widgets and bought condos and boats and new cars on the proceeds.

Then one day someone realized that the widget market was glutted with the manure widgets. The price of widgets plunged to unheard of lows. People were walking away from their widgets because the owed more than they were worth. The WDFs were in big trouble. No one knew how many of the bundled widgets were made of fine stainless steel and how many were manure. The banks that owned the WDFs were threatened with insolvency. Since the widget market was too big to be allowed to fail, the Government bought American Widget, together with all the WDFs.

The end result? The government bought American Widget was stuck with a lot of manure. They quickly put the engineers to work trying to flush the surplus manure down the toilets before anyone found out about it. The unqualified buyers lost nothing that they didn’t have in the first place. The brokers and bankers took the money and ran. The politicians bought all the WDFs and praised themselves for saving the nation. We, the taxpayers, paid the bill for all of them and ended up holding a bag full of manure.

Dick Pluta
AEGEA
Nassau, Bahamas

[erps]

So, to follow that logic we all need to chase an ever dwindling supply of oil until all of our cars grind to a halt.

I think the theory is that we will chase the dwindling supply of oil until it is no longer cheap, then we'll switch over to the next cheapest supply of energy. We all have the ability to make personal choices in our energy consumption. Do you drive a car? Is it powered by gas?

[PBzeer]

Have to hand it to you sck, you're the master of misconstruction.

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

Have to hand it to you sck, you're the master of misconstruction.

An Abraham Lincoln quote comes to mind. "Things should kept as simple as possible but no simpler."

[sck5]

erps has it right. We switched from wood to coal after we cut down all the trees and they got too expensive (its why there is almost no first growth forest in Europe). We switched from coal to oil when we started running out of coal we could access with the technology we had then. We will switch away from oil when THAT gets expensive compared to the alternative.

Sure, I have a car. It is hard not to. But that doesnt mean we cant see what is coming, if not in our lives then in our kids' lives. It would be a smart thing to make an investment NOW rather than letting others grab the lead. And they ARE doing it. Besides that, though, there is a clear national security reason to try to get less dependent on imported oil. If you cant see that, then I have to wonder if you have been paying attention the last few decades. You see, a lot of the oil is located in the Middle East which has quite a few countries ruled by people who dont like us. We are in a much stronger position with them if we dont need to buy what they sell. Or put another way, if we arent supplying the money they use to fund activities against us.

Maybe you guys are skeptical of the speed at which alternatives could be made viable. If so, OK, that isnt unreasonable. But to say "never mind any possible alternatives, we can only ever have the oil economy we do now" is absurd.

Ever hear the saying "the early bird gets the worm"? That is really true when it comes to new technologies.

[sck5]

I know i am making good points when pb and sway cant answer directly but just start making insulting remarks!! Way to go guys! Full speed ahead!! Onward and upward to the 19th century!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sck5]

Hey here's another fun news report. Joe the Plumber had a book signing event!! Guess how many people showed up?

washingtonpost.com

And this is a guy the conservatives liked so much they had him speak at the CPAC meeting!! Woohoo!!

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by sck5

erps has it right. We switched from wood to coal after we cut down all the trees and they got too expensive (its why there is almost no first growth forest in Europe). We switched from coal to oil when we started running out of coal we could access with the technology we had then. We will switch away from oil when THAT gets expensive compared to the alternative.

We didn't switch from coal.

[SailKing1]

There is more oil available than we can use in your lifetime.

8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia - so much for dependence
18 times as much oil as Irag - So much for war for oil
21 times as much as Kuwait.

And it's all here in the US. Read the USGS surveys.
USGS Energy Resources Program, USGS-ERP