Democrats versus Republicans

[craigimass]

Originally Posted by wind_magic

Welcome to the party.
Encourage people to come join us for a day of protests on the 4th of July, guaranteed to irritate both Democrats and Republicans. Rumor has it there are going to be a LOT MORE anti-Republican signs this time around to help disassociate the tea party protesters from the Republican party.

I guess you are going to have to inform these organizers about the anti-Republican stuff:
The GOP Comeback » Join the Fight for Freedom Call

Lots of big money going into the effort from the GOP.

They can print up all the signs they want for the media. The movement is being run, or claimed to being run, by Rick Perry (secessionist) and Mark Sanford...as well as Dick Armey and other lobbying groups.

[OsmundL]

Originally Posted by craigimass

Probably less than 5% of the people in the USA watch either MSNBC or FOX news......don't give them too much credit or power.

Aussies have what you might call a "special" relationship to Fox because of Rupert Murdoch. They remember him as the man who changed his citizenship from Australian to US for pure business purposes (rules on media ownership).

One might say that a person who will change nationality for money forfeits some credibility in speaking for "the good of the people" - as if he had true feelings about any one country...

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by craigimass

I guess you are going to have to inform these organizers about the anti-Republican stuff:
The GOP Comeback » Join the Fight for Freedom Call

Lots of big money going into the effort from the GOP.

They can print up all the signs they want for the media. The movement is being run, or claimed to being run, by Rick Perry (secessionist) and Mark Sanford...as well as Dick Armey and other lobbying groups.

Republicans are absolutely trying to get involved, no doubt about it. You can see them on the news trying to associate themselves with what is going on, trying to encourage it, etc. I wish there were something I could do about that, I know everyone is trying to keep them out.

Tea party protesters are in a VERY TIGHT SPOT right now because on the one hand we have Republicans trying to get involved, and then on the other we have Democrats ALSO trying to associate us with Republicans, it is a freaking nightmare. Nobody seems to want us to just BE WHO WE ARE, very few have bothered to see what we are all about. During the tax day protests all you could find on television were Republicans and Democrats mouthing off about what they thought was going on, but you rarely ever got to see interviews with the ACTUAL PEOPLE to see what they were saying.

[craigimass]

Hint: When Hannity, Glen Beck and Fox News lead the rallies and televise themselves standing in front of the crowd......that might tell you something.

I have heard from many tea baggers who claim they are independent, and that might be true. But the MOVEMENT is not independent, having been cooked up by GOP and right wing think tanks and Fox news money and media.

If you want an independent movement, you are going to have to start one and disassociate it completely from all those lobbyists, governors, think tanks and media outlets. Until then, you are only digging the divide deeper.

Those of us, myself included, who are a little cynical just continue to wonder where all these people were when they had a WASP President who spent unbelievable amounts of money and led us into the deepest financial (and other) crisis in decades. Is it possible that all these people had a conversion immediately after someone else was elected? Nah, that would be too cynical....or maybe not!

I wish you good luck but have NO doubt that the fear and hate-mongers will preempt most of the good intentions of individuals.

Oh, and July 4th does seem like a bad time....but what do I know? I've only been in marketing for 30 years.

[wind_magic]

Craigimass, how would you feel if I tried to tell you your position on an issue, or what your party affiliation is. You'd be annoyed, so stop doing it - I know who I am and what my own mind is, I don't need your help figuring it out. You have never been to any of these rallies so all you know is whatever you've seen on MSNBC, you even came on here parroted what you watched there, so why would I or anyone else pay any attention to your views on the tea party protests, what do you even know about it ?

Yes, Beck and his ilk did broadcast from a few of the tea party rallies, and they were standing in front of people, not many people, but people. We can't stop that. They do attract their own, so of course if Hannity is broadcasting he's going to draw people who agree with him over to where he is broadcasting from, but that wasn't the core of the events, they are sideshows over on the edge - you didn't get to see ANY of the speakers who were at the podium talking, because it was barely even covered. Fox News isn't going to cover it because they aren't going to broadcast people knocking the Republican party, and of course MSNBC isn't going to broadcast it because they want you to just dismiss these protesters as some staged Republican event. But anybody who knows anything about it knows it was and is different - despite what you think, it really is a grass roots movement, people really are pissed off and protesting on their own.

As to your thoughts on the 4th being a good time or not, what the people involved should do or what they should think on this issue or that - believe me, if we want to know what Craigimass thinks we should do, we'll let you know.

Edit - Now I know how the Green Party must feel when Republicans call them Democrats.

[danjarch]

Windy, the tea party is going to find it really hard to not be over run by the Republican party. I remember a cancer group that was over run by the American Cancer Society. The group of people who started it, were feed up with the ACS. The ACS spends more on overhead and marketing then research. But low and behold they found the ACS collecting money in they're name, speaking for them in the press and plenty more. In the end the founders gave up.

Same has happened to ACORN. The founders have left over what they saw as outright theft of the groups funds. Not a peep from the mainstream media. Same will most likely happen to the tea party group. To be effective at all they will have to endorse someone. They will have to work with someone.

They could try linking up with the libertarian or the constitutional party, but takes a lot of explaning to go over either of they're outlooks. In the meantime, O'Rielly, Hannity and Beck are going to try to claim more involvement. If they're not allowed into the tea party groups then a simular tea tax group will pop into existence and protest on the same days. These will be owned be the Republican party.

Good luck. I'll be rooting you on but don't get your hopes up to high. You can see this in action with the Notre Dame controversy. The best comment I've heard was from a senoir who pointed out that most of the groups had never had anything to do with the school. But thats the way things go these days.

Trying to fix your broken schools, up pops Jesse Jackson to run the media show. Mad about the AIG bonuses, ACORN will rent the busses. Think a comatos womens husband might know when it's time to pull the plug, six year olds march with water bottle in hand, begging to be allowed to give her a drink.

[sailaway21]

Damn, Windy! You're far more patient with the man than I was capable of being but I suppose we all have our limits.

Good work on the posts vis-a-vis the auto bailout. Why the administration desires to violate contract law for the dubious purpose of getting into the auto business is beyond me. And they are indeed violating the law. How many billions richer would the US treasury be had they just let things take their inevitable course last December? Of course, it's shaping up that we could say the same about TARP, as the CATO Institute does this month. The irony in the whole thing is that the Ford Motor company is the one likely to take it in the earhole while attempting to act responsibly. They will still be stuck with those legacy costs while trying to compete with a couple of government entities in Chrysler and GM. Of course, only protectionism will preserve those two new entities in the long run.

[poopdeckpappy]

Originally Posted by craigimass

Hint: When Hannity, Glen Beck and Fox News lead the rallies and televise themselves standing in front of the crowd......that might tell you something.

I have heard from many tea baggers who claim they are independent, and that might be true. But the MOVEMENT is not independent, having been cooked up by GOP and right wing think tanks and Fox news money and media.

If you want an independent movement, you are going to have to start one and disassociate it completely from all those lobbyists, governors, think tanks and media outlets. Until then, you are only digging the divide deeper.

Those of us, myself included, who are a little cynical just continue to wonder where all these people were when they had a WASP President who spent unbelievable amounts of money and led us into the deepest financial (and other) crisis in decades. Is it possible that all these people had a conversion immediately after someone else was elected? Nah, that would be too cynical....or maybe not!

I wish you good luck but have NO doubt that the fear and hate-mongers will preempt most of the good intentions of individuals.

Oh, and July 4th does seem like a bad time....but what do I know? I've only been in marketing for 30 years.

when people start making comments like this, ya know they're concerned about their own agenda

[craigimass]

I attend exactly zero rallies per year.
If I support something I either volunteer or give them money.

Make no mistake about it, I think LONG AGO people should have gotten angry and marched with pitchforks and shovel (ala Frankenstein) to the town square. But they never did - instead being content with buying things. Now that the bill has come due (both personally and collectively), we are all fighting mad......just in the last 6 months.

As to political affiliations, there is none I identify with...when I take the old Quiz I come out far on the side of libertarian, and a true libertarian would never cavort with either republicans or democrats at a tea party, rather choosing to stay home and smoke dope or whatever our free minds desire that day (that's a funny, my boys).

As to your parties or demonstrations.....be my guests. I'll watch on TV and pick up the pictures on the net. In my younger days I attended Stop the War stuff in DC along with a million (plus) of my friends and countrymen. It probably did some good. So more power to you, honestly.

As to the co-opting of the movement, that is an important thing. Don't underestimate it. We could have 100,000 people at a peaceful rally and if one skinhead pummels a person he doesn't like, the entire tone (and PR) of the situation is changed. What I am saying is that your motive may be pure, but don't assume that others is. In fact, you can be SURE than others is not.

If you are OK with that.....and understand the risks, go for it. But weigh other action, such as actually contacting your representatives, making certain you vote, getting involved with your local orgs (yes, the GOP party, the Dems, the Greens, etc....or whomever is pushing for things you consider fair and right).

Many honest movements have strayed. Even all the revolutions in China and Russia, etc. had really nice words and ideals backing them up. But the love of power often trumps all.

[craigimass]

I couldn't have said it better!

Often we see backwards world. It could be that the American Cancer Society does not really want to eradicate cancer because....well, because it puts them out of business! Not saying anyone thinks that way, but each person and group tends toward selfish motives, and Fox is looking for ratings (money, power) ONLY. Nothing else. The GOP Governors are two that are looking to run for President or National office. The lobbying groups...well, they are just folks who left the GOP (Dick Armey) and now are hired guns for corporate interests.

Always remember the famous maxim:
"I would not join any club that would have someone like me for a member."
-- Groucho Marx

Hmmm....looking in my own wallet for my club affiliations.
ASA
BoatUS (insurance)
3 Land Trust and Preservation groups
That's about it for my cards. I guess a real libertarian would not even preserve land, although the fact that I pay for it probably makes it OK.
I do have a library card and a Visa too.
A health care card...that's sort of communist because I belong to a "group" as it states on the Blue Cross card.

Originally Posted by danjarch

Windy, the tea party is going to find it really hard to not be over run by the Republican party. I remember a cancer group that was over run by the American Cancer Society. The group of people who started it, were feed up with the ACS. The ACS spends more on overhead and marketing then research. But low and behold they found the ACS collecting money in they're name, speaking for them in the press and plenty more. In the end the founders gave up.

Same has happened to ACORN. The founders have left over what they saw as outright theft of the groups funds. Not a peep from the mainstream media. Same will most likely happen to the tea party group. To be effective at all they will have to endorse someone. They will have to work with someone.

They could try linking up with the libertarian or the constitutional party, but takes a lot of explaning to go over either of they're outlooks. In the meantime, O'Rielly, Hannity and Beck are going to try to claim more involvement. If they're not allowed into the tea party groups then a simular tea tax group will pop into existence and protest on the same days. These will be owned be the Republican party.

Good luck. I'll be rooting you on but don't get your hopes up to high. You can see this in action with the Notre Dame controversy. The best comment I've heard was from a senoir who pointed out that most of the groups had never had anything to do with the school. But thats the way things go these days.

Trying to fix your broken schools, up pops Jesse Jackson to run the media show. Mad about the AIG bonuses, ACORN will rent the busses. Think a comatos womens husband might know when it's time to pull the plug, six year olds march with water bottle in hand, begging to be allowed to give her a drink.