Democrats versus Republicans

[PBzeer]

Of course, craig glosses over the fact that MTBE's would never have been in use, without government policies for a "cleaner" world.

[craigimass]

Originally Posted by erps

I would suggest that if you're going to be slandering large groups of people like that on this forum, you ought to have the balls to at least name names.

Uh, Sway, PB?

Is that good enough?

Basically anyone with a closed mind the defends criminals who poison the earth - and approves of such. Ideologues. People whose minds are already made up and whose viewpoints don't even mesh with their OWN viewpoints.

You can't crow about the vast debt that you are leaving to your grand kids and then cheer about the folks who poison the water that they will drink. It just doesn't jive in any book of reality.

Is that clear enough?

As one members signature says....a person should be able to "insert list here" - to add to that fine list, I will say that a person should be able to change their thinking based on facts and real experiences as opposed to just latching onto some thought process and trying to make everything fit into that box. That experience is known as LEARNING.

[PBzeer]

Ad hominem attacks, straw men, and now, the non-sequitur. Not to mention, snide innuendo and smug condescension. Your arsenal of literary devices only lacks that of cogent exposition craig.

[PBzeer]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Obama administration says executive compensation must be better managed to prevent the sort of risk-taking that jeopardizes the economy.


Gene Sperling, who advises Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, said Thursday the administration does not want to impose caps on executive pay. But he also laid out for the House Financial Services Committee a list of guidelines calling on publicly-held companies to link compensation to long-term performance, not short-term gains.


Sperling said in prepared testimony that the administration believes compensation practices "must be better aligned with long-term value and prudent risk management at all firms, and not just for the financial services industry." (Emphasis by me)

Yet another example of how Obama says one thing, then does another while eroding yet another matter of private, not government, responsibility.

[sck5]

PB. your quote used the words "calling on" companies to reduce pay. If I had a nickel for every time a politician "called on" somebody to do something I would be rich. Calling on them to do stuff is very different from a cap. A cap they cant ignore. Being "called on" they can and will. Just more cheap talk from a politician. Dont get your shorts in a knot.

[PBzeer]

Prior to that, was the "list of guidelines".

Of course, if you think Bambi has appointed a "Compensation Czar" as nothing more than expensive window dressing, then you would be safe to assume that "called on" is nothing more than an advisory. That would be contrary though to the record he is forging.

[PBzeer]

A little thought exercise.

If it is incumbent upon us to preserve all forms of life, so as to maintain a "natural" state of being, a balance between hunter and hunted, why do we so fervently seek the extinction of nature's own method of population control?

It's often said that mankind knows no natural predator, yet, this isn't true. Be it swine flu, typhoid, malaria, or any number of diseases, they are all predators of mankind. Nature's way of keeping the human population in balance.

We build levees and dams to halt the natural state for the convenience of mankind. Is that any less of a pollution of the earth than greenhouse gases? We build a house in Florida, only to have it destroyed by a hurricane, and then rebuild it, in defiance of the natural order.

In other words, "environmentalism" isn't about saving the planet, it's about keeping it habitable for mankind. Whether that's to the benefit of the planet or not. Put another way, it's okay to pollute the planet, as long as it doesn't have a negative effect on human existence. Not quite the pious reverence advocated by the noble enviro-supplicant.

Of course, there will be those who try to make this a statement of position, rather than the mere musings that they are. Those who take offense at their eco-consciousness being called not noble idealism, but merely a selfish interest in their own existence. But once you get past the flowery rhetoric, that's all it is.

I'm all for clean this or that, just don't try to wrap it up in some purity of devotion to Mother Earth. "Cause it ain't.

[sck5]

PB

Compensation czar - yes you are right. Just window dressing.

[craigimass]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

A little thought exercise.

I'm all for clean this or that, just don't try to wrap it up in some purity of devotion to Mother Earth. "Cause it ain't.

I certainly don't.

Everything we do is inherently selfish....or at least most of it.

The question, IMHO, is simply one of waste. Do you feel good eating only 1/4 of the food on your plate and throwing away the rest? I don't.

Would I feel right driving a Hummer 15,000 miles each year? No way. With 6 billion people on the planet, I think it is important that we reduce our resource footprint whenever possible. In most cases, that does not mean a vast change in our lifestyle. It simply means designing things right and using them right.

There are lots of points of view on this stuff, and they probably all have some relevance, but having been in the energy field my entire life I have developed a liking for large scale solutions. That is, YOU might save a lot of energy by living on a sailboat or eating from your garden, but since everyone is not going to do that, it won't make a dent in the problem.

On the other hand....

If an engineer makes a tiny tweak in the performance of a car engine - or larger changes (such as fuel injection, aerodynamic bodies), then the savings are multiplied by 100's of millions.

Same with other things. While it might make you feel good to throw a PV panel on the roof and run your computer on solar juice, the net effect on the energy problem of the world is about zero. The big changes are coming from solar thermal plants with megawatts of capacity. One wind turbine located offshore does more good than hundreds of ugly smaller ones in our backyards.

Not to say there is no room for individual action. It's just that big problems require big solutions.

Not to worry. As we speak the revolution is underway. Google engineers, along with many other brilliant companies and venture money, are working on something which will instantly take us to the next level. They project solar (mostly thermal) energy at a price LESS than coal. It will be very hard for people to argue FOR cutting off the top of mountains, polluting streams, poisoning the air and the other problems of coal once pure economics rules it out.

I like people who put their money and brains where their mouths are. Talk is cheap. We live in exciting times where the possibilities are almost endless...all we need is the WILL to succeed.

Which gets me back to my beef with those who think we can't.

[camaraderie]

"I like people who put their money and brains where their mouths are. Talk is cheap. We live in exciting times where the possibilities are almost endless...all we need is the WILL to succeed.
Which gets me back to my beef with those who think we can't. "

Once again...you rail against a non-existential proto-conservative that exists only in your own mind if you believe the crap you write.

No one says we can't do this or that. What we say is there is presently NO technology other than nuclear, coal and oil that is capable of powering our economy. Those three can do so with minimal pollution (the real stuff...not the CO2).
Now...just as soon as your google guys come up with REAL alternative energy that works and can scale nationally and compete price wise with oil and coal and nukes...we will all happily follow the pied piper down that road. Just don't tell me we should place our lives and our families futures and our nations economy on some government mandated hope and change.
I build my castles on rock solid technology...not castles in the air.