That statement just isn't true in the real world. There are two prices, the full price for those who don't have insurance, and the discounted price ( read the price the HMO will pay the medical provider ). This is a sad fact of life. Did you know you can also negotiate the price of a procedure at a hospital? I do it all the time.
I'm a bit confused by the above but do know that the insurance companies pay at the highest rates to physicians and hospitals. If you're paying cash, you can commonly negotiate a $225 X-ray down to $150. I don't think that anyone thinks that there is $75 worth of paperwork involved in submitting it to the insurance company or, if there is, that there is a valid reason for it. Paying cash for services is as close the the free market as we come in health care and it does reveal that prices are always negotiable. What this fact does reveal is that there is a lot of fat in the health care industry, much of it government originated, and that we can make it far more competitive.
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“Scientists are people who build the Brooklyn Bridge and then buy it.” Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.
Actually the uninsured pay the highest rates. Check your next statement from your insurance provider. It will show the charged rate, negotiated rate, what was payed and what you owe.
If you are uninsured you will pay the charged rate unless you are unemployed or can show inability to pay. Then you can negotiate down to 60%. The insurance company rate, But you still have to pay.
I have a friend who is unemployed and living on SS who had a heart attack. I helped him through this process. He has to pay the 60% or file bankruptcy. He is paying $50.00 pr month (the most he can afford) and of course at that rate he will never pay it off before he dies. And even though he has discussed it with the hospital in detail providing All his financial information, he is harassed by the hospital weekly for more money.
By the way he was an insurance salesman for Anthem. Could not get insurance because of preexisting conditions, his weight.
I'm a bit confused by the above but do know that the insurance companies pay at the highest rates to physicians and hospitals. If you're paying cash, you can commonly negotiate a $225 X-ray down to $150. I don't think that anyone thinks that there is $75 worth of paperwork involved in submitting it to the insurance company or, if there is, that there is a valid reason for it. Paying cash for services is as close the the free market as we come in health care and it does reveal that prices are always negotiable. What this fact does reveal is that there is a lot of fat in the health care industry, much of it government originated, and that we can make it far more competitive.
Sailking is very close to being correct. There is also clarity care which he didn't mention. I have lived the insured and uninsured medical night mare with cancer, cancer surgery, heart attack, triple bypass and not one not two but as of right now, 14 stints in my heart. I have negotiated payments but I have not been dunned for more money. I also want to say thank god for walmart they save me at least $150.00 a month in drug cost. If you noticed many businesses have followed walmart's lead on this. Can we hope that a government program might do the same, in lowering cost ? I use to have money.
__________________ S/V Scheherazade
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I had a dream, I was sailing, I was happy, I was even smiling. Then I looked down and saw that I was on a multi-hull and woke up suddenly in a cold sweat.
quote:
"By the way he was an insurance salesman for Anthem. Could not get insurance because of preexisting conditions, his weight."
yet had he been able to get his weight to an acceptable level, not only would he have been insured, but would have been in better health.
don'tcha get it? of course they're not gonna insure those whom are high risk for medical problems. especially self induced illnesses. overweight people are a high risk for medical problems. and insurance companies shouldn't be forced to cover those who have willfully put themselves in a high risk situation. hell, me? i'm an overweight, diabetic, alcoholic who smokes and has high blood pressure and high cholesterol. all of which are self induced medical problems. yet do i have the right to hold a gun to yours or anyone's head and demand health care?
well that's what the government's gonna do, my friends. they're gonna take your money and use it to keep my miserable carcass in existence. and when they start, that's all it's gonna be is a start. you'll be lucky seven years from now, to bring home forty percent of your hard earned pay.
Heading down the road of determining whom is eligible for health care insurance is a path I'd recommend not treading. Are we really proposing that some body be placed in charge of what is a healthy lifestyle? Government or the insurance industry are going to reach similar conclusions; whatever costs them money is an unhealthy lifestyle. As if the health insurance bureaucracy is not bloated enough, all we need is our citizens in a protracted dispute over what is unhealthy for them.
Of course, the logical extension of such a policy will be such things as determining a "life worth living" and similar unquantifiable's. Why spend all that money for one more year on a seventy eight year old life? Why expend funds on a child doomed to a short existence because of congenital defects? Abortion is cheaper than a full term pregnancy.
Absent any effective competition for my health care insurance dollars, I see little reason to start surrendering my existing coverage wholesale. I think it's supposed to be the insurance and the health care industry that is supposed to be competitive and not the patients.
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“Scientists are people who build the Brooklyn Bridge and then buy it.” Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.
aye, sway. but i'm afraid that's where it's all gonna end up.soon after this is passed and in effect, you will be subject to their rules and regs. one of which will be a health counselor, and a health review board who will determine the best course of action for your individual needs. except there won't be individual needs, there will be a standard operating procedure which wil have determining factors, such as age, current physical health and cost for cure or maintaining life.
do you really think government has compassion for you? don't be naive. with all that they're having to control in our lives already, do you think they're gonna have compassion for you? absolutely not! they haven't yet, have they? no, and you know it's so.
government doesn't give anything. it robs from one, and rations to another. this has been it's pattern throughout our birth as a nation. it's their job, and they do it well............
yes poopy, the government invented the ponzi scheme. it's not the only tricks they have up their sleeve. difference is, madoff didn't use guns to force his victims to surrender their money. he used his cunning and smooth talk. the government will use guns, cunning and smooth talk.............
"Heading down the road of determining whom is eligible for health care insurance is a path I'd recommend not treading"
You seem not to get the whole point of the reform. The experience of all other countries demonstrates that it costs more to try to determine who is eligible every time somebody walks into a hospital than it does to simply cure what aills them. There is even proof in our own systems - Medicare spends less than 2% admin because everyone is eligible. Private systems spend more than 30%
Better recheck your figures sck. While it's true that Medicare spends a lower percent overall, it spends a HIGHER percent, per patient. The thing that makes Medicare LOOK like it's spending less is that it draws from a larger pool to get the figures.
So while it makes a great talking point, it doesn't bear up under scrutiny. And when you add in the NEW bureaucracies that will be established under either the House or Senate plans, how long do you think even those illusionary "savings" will last?
And don't forget, their main vehicle to cut costs will be "cost effectiveness". Need a hip replacement (common among older folks)? Well, since you're already at the end of life expectancy, we just can't let you have that procedure. It wouldn't be cost effective. In other words, the choice won't be made on YOUR quality of life, but on what some bureaucrat decides is best for the system.
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John
Ontario 32 - Aria
Free, is the heart, that lives not, in fear.
Full, is the spirit, that thinks not, of falling.
True, is the soul, that hesitates not, to give.
Alive, is the one, that believes, in love. JCP
