Impeach Obama! Obama lied!

[PBzeer]

"I don't want to run the auto companies", remarked Obama in a news conference.

Rueters Wire Service: GM reorganization to include quick sale to Washington.

[camaraderie]

In keeping with the "obama lied" ACTUAL topic of this thread:

Yesterday Obama said that the new Car Emissions standards will reduce global warming.

The National Highway Traffic and Safety had already done a "warming impact" analysis for similar mileage/emmissions goals under Bush...using the warming models. They found that there would be a temperature reduction in 2100 of .007 degrees following the UN climate models to calculate the impact! http://keithhennessey.com/wp-content...A_analysis.pdf
More change we can believe in and CERTAINLY worth having the government dictate what kind of cars must be built and charging us an average of $1300 more per car for this great progress on global warming.

Ya wanna cut down on foreign oil imports? DRILL HERE and NOW.
AND Put on a REBATABLE tax per gallon of gas to influence CHOICE. Let the market work and don't dictate our NEEDS to us.

[ssneade]

first, you have to have global warming. every assertion that there is global warming has been disproved. the so called evidence they have has been tainted with more liberal, socialist falsehoods. so there's another lie. tomorrow will be another lie, and another, and another.................
sorry craig, not many of us want to see the world through your eyes. facts hold much more substance than ideals.........

[hellosailor]

cam-
"AND Put on a REBATABLE tax per gallon of gas to influence CHOICE"
I'd agree with you there, but I think you've missed the logic. The problem is that the car makers will lag, not lead, because they serve the "old" market not the future one. Buyers who want to buy a high mileage high quality car will pretty much find they can't buy one--because the makers haven't made one, because the market hasn't demanded one. The classic "chicken and the egg" paradox.

Government carrots and sticks can break that paradox and ensure that cars are made and a market is served.

Ideally, carrots and sticks will both be applied but let's face it, gummint ain't that sharp. The rubes, excuse me, mass market, still want 8000# crossovers and trucks and 300+hp, whether they need it or not. And I think we've all seen and heard families with three Landrovers and a Hummer complaining bitterly that they can't afford $4.50 gasoline--but they wouldn't dare to buy cars that cost less than $50,000 and they prefer to waste money leasing them and being conspicuous consumers.

Conspicuous consumption drives the market way more than you might give it credit for. Folks won't fold, unless someone gut-punches them to give 'em a little help with that first bend.

Of course, the entire car culture and the logic of "live here, work two hours away, no way to get ther ebut drive" needs a good re-examination too. But that's something only a real sharp gummint would look at--and way more dangerous than doing a bandaid fix like this one.


ss-
"every assertion that there is global warming has been disproved."
Quite to the contrary, every record shows that the earth's climate has always been in flux and that right now, we're actually way overdue for an ice age. Global warming, whether it is humanly caused or simply part of the larger cycles, may either save us or kill us and anyone who argues that we can ignore this part of our environment, rather than trying to understand it, is simply a lemming going over the cliff.
This planet gets hot enough to kill off all human civilization. And cold enough to do the same. Doesn't matter WHY that happens, if we're not ahead of the curve, it will kill us off. Just like waking up and finding six inches of water over the bilge--you either pay some attention to it, or you deserve to drown.

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

cam-
"AND Put on a REBATABLE tax per gallon of gas to influence CHOICE"
I'd agree with you there, but I think you've missed the logic. The problem is that the car makers will lag, not lead, because they serve the "old" market not the future one. Buyers who want to buy a high mileage high quality car will pretty much find they can't buy one--because the makers haven't made one, because the market hasn't demanded one. The classic "chicken and the egg" paradox.

Government carrots and sticks can break that paradox and ensure that cars are made and a market is served.

Ideally, carrots and sticks will both be applied but let's face it, gummint ain't that sharp. The rubes, excuse me, mass market, still want 8000# crossovers and trucks and 300+hp, whether they need it or not. And I think we've all seen and heard families with three Landrovers and a Hummer complaining bitterly that they can't afford $4.50 gasoline--but they wouldn't dare to buy cars that cost less than $50,000 and they prefer to waste money leasing them and being conspicuous consumers.

Conspicuous consumption drives the market way more than you might give it credit for. Folks won't fold, unless someone gut-punches them to give 'em a little help with that first bend.

Of course, the entire car culture and the logic of "live here, work two hours away, no way to get ther ebut drive" needs a good re-examination too. But that's something only a real sharp gummint would look at--and way more dangerous than doing a bandaid fix like this one.


ss-
"every assertion that there is global warming has been disproved."
Quite to the contrary, every record shows that the earth's climate has always been in flux and that right now, we're actually way overdue for an ice age. Global warming, whether it is humanly caused or simply part of the larger cycles, may either save us or kill us and anyone who argues that we can ignore this part of our environment, rather than trying to understand it, is simply a lemming going over the cliff.
This planet gets hot enough to kill off all human civilization. And cold enough to do the same. Doesn't matter WHY that happens, if we're not ahead of the curve, it will kill us off. Just like waking up and finding six inches of water over the bilge--you either pay some attention to it, or you deserve to drown.

Boy, I'll bet you could get a job in Detroit, Stuttgart, or Tokyo. Because none of the auto mavens there have been able to predict what the car of the future will resemble.

It might no hurt to remember that Toyota researched the Prius on profits made from large SUV's and pick up trucks. And they sold the Prius at a loss. Honda canceled it's hybrid for terminally torpid sales, as well.

The fact of the matter is that all car companies have lost money and will continue to lose money on high mpg cars until something fundamental in the market changes. Apparently only certain enlightened individuals and the US government know what the car of the future should look like. and we could have that car today if we just mandated that the Corolla cost $50,000 and was the only car one could buy. We'll do worse than that.

One may have noticed that the Obama administration just bumped the CAFE standards to 39mpg by 2016, something the NHTSA itself thought not only imprudent but technically impossible with existing safety standards.

We could double the average mileage of our cars overnight if we eliminated all pollution and safety standards. How bad do we want it?

And what is inherently wrong with people choosing the car they want, as they would when buying a boat? Do you really believe people are too stupid to choose in their own best interest?

[ssneade]

have they made motorcycles any safer? no, you hit a tree at sixty, your dead. sudden deceleration syndrome will get you every time. my 67 mustang gets 22mpg with, now get this, a carburetor. i feel quite safe in this car even with only a lap belt. if i added an overdrive, i could probably up the mpg to 26 or better. if it's your time to check out, it don't matter what your in, your gone.......
let the consumer select the vehicles they wanna drive. just drive sensibly..
oh yeah, i gotta say this, obama lied!

[bwalker42]

Originally Posted by craigimass

I think General Grant lied.

That's an opinion piece too.....

I think you lied, but that's just my opinion,
btw
Obama did lie, but that's politics

[camaraderie]

We may have actually had Obama's first truly impeachable offense with the firing of Inspector General Walpin. Not that it will happen...but it does appear that he directed the law to be broken. (A law that HE voted for in the Senate!!)

"....So the investigation had to be swept under the rug quickly, and Walpin had to go. Obama had one of his White House lawyers call Walpin and demand that he resign within an hour. When Walpin refused to quit, Obama fired him without giving a reason other than his supposed lack of "fullest confidence" in Walpin. This certainly violated the spirit, and may have violated the letter of the 2008 Inspectors General Reform Act, which Obama co-sponsored. (I think it probably did.) This is classic Obama--ignoring a statute which he himself had sponsored just a year earlier."

The whole sleazy story here:
Power Line - The Walpin Story: It's About Money

[craigimass]

One thing you can't do in any government position (or in academia or even the corporate world) is blow the whistle on ANYONE for moneys sake.

Washing his car, eh? Heck, we have bigger abuses of government money - by 100X, in our town of 6,000. We have bigger corporate and non-profit abuses too - as well as in the schools, etc.

If this is a impeachable offense, you better get ready to fire every person in the country who does not get their hands dirty.......which are most of them!

I volunteered in an non-profit org that took city, state, private and corporate money - and even had Americorp volunteers in it. I left that place because I could not stand to try to do something for people while watching everyone take money "because it was there"...and if they didn't take it this year, it would not be forthcoming next year.

Heck, I wish corruption and waylaying of funds stopped at washing cars and stuff like that. We'd be a lot better off. I've seen "honest" expenses going to buy new laptops (not needed) for every staff member....in orgs that were grass roots and broke.

As long as humans are involved and we have the national ideal of "I'm get mine and you get yours", we are doomed to waste too much money. It doesn't matter who is in power - the dems probably break it up to suit more small people, while the GOP gives it away by the billions to corporate welfare, etc.

The best thing we can hope is that the economy continues to turn around - enough so that the programs designed to offset the potential of a depression can get scaled back.

[sailaway21]

Lie of the Day. President Obama is now open to the idea of taxing employer-provided medical benefits.
My Political Rivals: Obama to Tax Medical Benefits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Obama Voters: Time to Admit Your Mistake!!!
He opposed such when a candidate.