Is this forum conservative? Why?

[camaraderie]

Your employees are ALWAYS worth exactly what you pay them. If not...they would leave. The difference between what they are paid and what you take in is the value of YOUR capital, YOUR ideas, and YOUR efforts. End the guilt trip.

[AE28]

Originally Posted by camaraderie

Your employees are ALWAYS worth exactly what you pay them. If not...they would leave. The difference between what they are paid and what you take in is the value of YOUR capital, YOUR ideas, and YOUR efforts. End the guilt trip.

...or you go broke.

[N0NJY]

Not to be a republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head. - François Guizot

In the vernacular of the time, the quote would read (and has been variously misattributed to Winston Churchill and others) -

"If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

Of course, if you're talking about head, I think we're speaking of Clinton....

[N0NJY]

Originally Posted by Sailormann

Government doesn't "take care" of me. Trust me on that. The amount of money that I remit to the government personally and through my business interests more than compensates for any and all services I avail myself of.

I pay taxes. I believe they are good. I believe excessive taxation is bad. I am not excessively taxed.

The money I earn ceased to solely be a product of my own personal efforts many years ago. I benefit from the labour of other people. The value of the money that they receive as compensation for their efforts is less than the market value of the work they provide.

This is how a business makes a profit.

Without those people, I would not be anywhere near as comfortable as I am. I depend on them for my standard of living. So I don't think it's asking too much from me that I return some of what I have taken from them. They gave it in labour and I return it in taxes.

And this attitude is PRECISELY why the world is screwed up.

Instead of giving those so-called benefits they are providing you for their work - being paid below market value in the form of taxes, why would you NOT pass on some of your profits to the workers?

Makes sense to me to give them a raise and bring them up to "market VALUE" and market standards, instead of giving that money to the GOVERNMENT who uses it for something OTHER than providing for your workers.

*I* on the other hand AM excessively taxed. I am married, my wife and I no longer have any dependents.

When I was younger and in the Reserves I was getting paid a small amount for my time with the military - no where near enough to support the family.

I worked as a teacher.

I was paid a grand total of 9.50 an HOUR for my teaching job.

We had five children. House payment and a car payment. My wife had to stay home and not work to care for children. I was NOT eligible for food stamps or other government programs because I MADE TOO MUCH MONEY. COuldn't possibly have afforded day care. I STILL got taxed and rarely got "money back". I still had SS and other things taken from my pay.

Now that we're alone, we still have a house payment. I make a LOT more money, and they take 35% of it away from me.

I don't OWE the government a damned thing.

They OWE me all that money they took out of my pay over the years, and I want it back NOW.

All of it. Right now.

I'll invest it how I wish and spend it to help the economy.

They won't do jack-crap with it that will help the economy.

I'm over taxed, underpaid and I'm sick of "Liberal Minds" who think they have some lock on what other people OUGHT to be doing and paying.

My money. Give it back government. Get out of my pockets.

When you start doing what you're supposed to do - namely PROTECT this country from terrorist and attacks from other countries, then you can use some of it. Otherwise, pay off the National Debt, stop taxing the PEOPLE PERIOD and have the friggin' post office make money for you.

[sck5]

how delusional can you get? If taxes didnt pay to build the school where on earth do you think the teachers would work? For that matter, how do you think they pay teachers? How do they pay for the road the teachers drive to school on? How do they pay for the cops who make sure those roads are safe and nobody mugs you on the way? How do they pay for research into which vaccines will prevent mass infection and death in schools when you get there? (this used to be pretty routine back in the day - you can see the waves of epidemics in the old graveyards hereabouts)

This is the conservative fantasy - That the ONLY input into your living is your own work. Nonsense - there are 200 years of public investment in the USA that made your standard of living possible and that continue to maintain it today. You want to avoid taxes altogether? Go live in a log cabin with two mules and a cow and have a good time with your life expectancy of about 45 years.

[knothead]

Originally Posted by sck5

You want to avoid taxes altogether? Go live in a log cabin with two mules and a cow and have a good time with your life expectancy of about 45 years.

Sounds pretty good.
Would anyone care to trade a sheep for a barely used mule?

[sck5]

well, if you have the sheep at least you arent alone

[N0NJY]

Originally Posted by sck5

how delusional can you get? If taxes didnt pay to build the school where on earth do you think the teachers would work?

Delusional is believing that schooling is OWED to everyone by a government. It's not. In fact, schools were never run in most countries by governments until it was figured out that Socialism can be instilled into children through schooling them out of the hands of their parents.

In early America schools were set up by people, usually women, in communities. Teachers were paid by "room and board" and some stipend usually from the people who sent their children to the schools.

These were the first "private schools".

There are still private schools today - and certainly they provide a great education, usually much better than government run, public school systems in the United States.

So the answer is... "Free Market". Set up a school, and make it a good one, and people will flock to you.

For that matter, how do you think they pay teachers?

Let me see... from private school profits. Or, alternatively, parents can HOME SCHOOL their children to keep them out of the clutches of Socialist-based curriculums...

How do they pay for the road the teachers drive to school on?

Well, as it is NOW, STATES tax the living crap out of us, send that money to the Federal government, which in turn holds it and doles it back out to the states in smaller amounts than initially sent.

There is no need whatsoever for the Federal government to levy gasoline taxes on us (used for roads) and for states to level gasoline taxes (used to pay for the roads) and then property taxes (used to pay for schools and roads) and then to tax the businesses yet again with the same taxes, and then tax us AGAIN when we go to the store to purchase something from the store.

We are taxed TO DEATH.

How do they pay for the cops who make sure those roads are safe and nobody mugs you on the way?

They don't have to. I carry a gun and I buy my own ammo...

How do they pay for research into which vaccines will prevent mass infection and death in schools when you get there? (this used to be pretty routine back in the day - you can see the waves of epidemics in the old graveyards hereabouts)

LOL. Vaccines are produced NOT by governments, they are produced by private industry. The are researched by doctors and medical centers. Not by the government. Sure they get funding from the government in the form of GRANTS, which is monies taken out of various coffers the government has for research and development.

How about those private industries continue to research vaccines and other medicines using their own monies - and not MY money, and then sell the vaccines, like they already DO....???

This is the conservative fantasy - That the ONLY input into your living is your own work.

This is untrue. This is not a fantasy. The fantasy YOU are experiencing is that *I* (and others) should be working my(our) ass(es) off, giving 35-50% of my personal INCOME over to some damned government entity (the IRS) which in turn gives MY dollars to a government that can't manage its way out of a wet paper bag and has proven this time again with failure after failure, unethical behavior one after another, corrupt and ignorant government bureaucrats who somehow think they are "above the rest of us"....

I'm not sure what you mean by "That the ONLY input into your living is your own work."

If I were to bail out of "society" and head for deep in the Rocky Mountains, turn off and throw away my cell phone and vanish, the only person I have to count on is myself and my own survival skills. I WOULD survive with what I take with me. I don't need someone giving me food, a job, a house, or taking what I find and make from the land.

I can hunt, fish and live in the winter and summer above 7000 feet just fine. The Government doesn't need to give me a home, or tell me where to live. YOU don't have to help me and indeed I wouldn't want your help.

Point being, MY life is now dependent on me and me alone, no one else.

I'll have to hunt and kill animals for food, clothing and make what I can from the wilderness.

Why should it be any different in a city? What makes "poor people" (urbanites who refuse to look for a job or try to hold one, and believe you me, I know a few of those people and their bitchy complaints....) any different from me?

The fact I have a job, can HOLD a job and try to pay my bills on time, be honest with my life and family and don't go out robbing people (or even "robbing Peter to pay Paul" makes us different.

And people like you want to HELP those who won't help themselves. Not those who CAN'T help themselves. That's where communities and churches come in.

Government should get the HELL out of my life. Now.

Nonsense - there are 200 years of public investment in the USA that made your standard of living possible and that continue to maintain it today.

Son, my family came from the old lands way more than 200 years ago. Many of them were FORCED out of their lands by corrupt governments and came here to make a new life for themselves and they did a damned fine job of doing so. Farms and lands that have been in my family for over two hundred years have been taken by the government, sold or lost to the Depression.

My family for one, never asked for a hand out. None of them (I've done my due diligence on this too, and have a family tree and history I can point to - I know who my G-G-G-G-Grandfather was, and all of their children....)

MY standard of living would be no different NOW if I were born 200 years ago - because it is ME, and not you or the government that sets my goals and standards.

You seem to have failed miserably at understanding the term "individuality".

You want to avoid taxes altogether? Go live in a log cabin with two mules and a cow and have a good time with your life expectancy of about 45 years.

I didn't say I wanted to avoid taxes. I am fine with paying taxes. I am NOT fine with paying MORE taxes, I am NOT fine with paying the amount of taxes I pay now.

I am NOT fine with the fact that things like Social Security has been taken out of my pay since I was 16 years old and I'll likely never see a penny of it. Instead, we should NOT be paying into a failed system.

That's what I want stopped. NOW.

And I want that money back. NOW.

They want to "stimulate the economy". Fine, give me back ALL that social security money, right now, today.

I'll spend it. The government should NOT be giving that money to banks, the Big Three or any other company, or organization.

That money doesn't belong to them. It belongs to me. Me the People.

And I'm way past 45 already.

[N0NJY]

Originally Posted by sck5

well, if you have the sheep at least you arent alone

LOL

[sailhog]

Where I grew up we were required to go to school. It's obvious that a certain poster on this thread grew up somewhere else.