Must pass test, be photographed and fingerprinted to print newsletters?

[erps]

What if our new government required that you go register, have your picture taken, get fingerprinted and pass a written test before you went out and held up a protest sign, or printed up political handouts? Would that be a concern?

That's what they're proposing with bill H.R. 45 if you own firearms. If they can do it with one right, they can do it with others.

SayUncle » HR 45

[N0NJY]

I posted the text of this over in the other thread that got closed, as usual, and was pooh-poohed. Careful where you're walking, erps, someone will think you're a crazy ole coot, who is a "fear monger" or something.

[N0NJY]

Sorry, I have to say this.. I think it was Chuckles who said "if it ever gets out of committee...."

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Looks like it NOT ONLY made it out of committee, it also made it to the house...

H.R.45

Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)

---

HR 45 IH
111th CONGRESS 1st Session H. R. 45
To provide for the implementation of a system of licensing for purchasers of certain firearms and for a record of sale system for those firearms, and for other purposes.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
January 6, 2009

Mr. RUSH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

---

A BILL
To provide for the implementation of a system of licensing for purchasers of certain firearms and for a record of sale system for those firearms, and for other purposes.

• Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; TABLE OF CONTENTS.

• (a) Short Title- This Act may be cited as `Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009'.

• (b) Table of Contents- The table of contents for this Act is as follows:

• • Sec. 1. Short title; table of contents.

• • Sec. 2. Findings and purposes.

• • Sec. 3. Definitions.

TITLE I--LICENSING

• • Sec. 101. Licensing requirement.

• • Sec. 102. Application requirements.

• • Sec. 103. Issuance of license.

• • Sec. 104. Renewal of license.

• • Sec. 105. Revocation of license.

TITLE II--RECORD OF SALE OR TRANSFER

• • Sec. 201. Sale or transfer requirements for qualifying firearms.

• • Sec. 202. Firearm records.

TITLE III--ADDITIONAL PROHIBITIONS

• • Sec. 301. Universal background check requirement.

• • Sec. 302. Failure to maintain or permit inspection of records.

• • Sec. 303. Failure to report loss or theft of firearm.

• • Sec. 304. Failure to provide notice of change of address.

• • Sec. 305. Child access prevention.

TITLE IV--ENFORCEMENT

• • Sec. 401. Criminal penalties.

• • Sec. 402. Regulations.

• • Sec. 403. Inspections.

• • Sec. 404. Orders.

• • Sec. 405. Injunctive enforcement.

TITLE V--FIREARM INJURY INFORMATION AND RESEARCH

• • Sec. 501. Duties of the Attorney General.

TITLE VI--EFFECT ON STATE LAW

• • Sec. 601. Effect on State law.

• • Sec. 602. Certification of State firearm licensing systems and State firearm record of sale systems.

TITLE VII--RELATIONSHIP TO OTHER LAW

• • Sec. 701. Subordination to Arms Export Control Act.

TITLE VIII--INAPPLICABILITY

• • Sec. 801. Inapplicability to governmental authorities.

TITLE IX--EFFECTIVE DATE

• • Sec. 901. Effective date of amendments.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS AND PURPOSES.

• (a) Findings- Congress finds that--

• • (1) the manufacture, distribution, and importation of firearms is inherently commercial in nature;

• • (2) firearms regularly move in interstate commerce;

• • (3) to the extent that firearms trafficking is intrastate in nature, it arises out of and is substantially connected with a commercial transaction, which, when viewed in the aggregate, substantially affects interstate commerce;

• • (4) because the intrastate and interstate trafficking of firearms are so commingled, full regulation of interstate commerce requires the incidental regulation of intrastate commerce;

• • (5) gun violence in the United States is associated with the majority of homicides, over half the suicides, and two-thirds of non-fatal violent injuries; and

• • (6) on the afternoon of May 10, 2007, Blair Holt, a junior at Julian High School in Chicago, was killed on a public bus riding home from school when he used his body to shield a girl who was in the line of fire after a young man boarded the bus and started shooting.

• (b) Sense of the Congress- It is the sense of the Congress that--

• • (1) firearms trafficking is prevalent and widespread in and among the States, and it is usually impossible to distinguish between intrastate trafficking and interstate trafficking; and

• • (2) it is in the national interest and within the role of the Federal Government to ensure that the regulation of firearms is uniform among the States, that law enforcement can quickly and effectively trace firearms used in crime, and that firearms owners know how to use and safely store their firearms.

• (c) Purposes- The purposes of this Act and the amendments made by this Act are--

• • (1) to protect the public against the unreasonable risk of injury and death associated with the unrecorded sale or transfer of qualifying firearms to criminals and youth;

• • (2) to ensure that owners of qualifying firearms are knowledgeable in the safe use, handling, and storage of those firearms;

• • (3) to restrict the availability of qualifying firearms to criminals, youth, and other persons prohibited by Federal law from receiving firearms; and

• • (4) to facilitate the tracing of qualifying firearms used in crime by Federal and State law enforcement agencies.

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.

• (a) In General- In this Act:

• • (1) FIREARM; LICENSED DEALER; LICENSED MANUFACTURER; STATE- The terms `firearm', `licensed dealer', `licensed manufacturer', and `State' have the meanings given those terms in section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code.

• • (2) QUALIFYING FIREARM- The term `qualifying firearm' has the meaning given the term in section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, as amended by subsection (b) of this section.

• (b) Amendment to Title 18, United States Code- Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

• • `(36) The term `qualifying firearm'--

• • • `(A) means--

• • • • `(i) any handgun; or

• • • • `(ii) any semiautomatic firearm that can accept any detachable ammunition feeding device; and

• • • `(B) does not include any antique.'.

TITLE I--LICENSING

SEC. 101. LICENSING REQUIREMENT.

• Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

• `(aa) Firearm Licensing Requirement-

• • `(1) IN GENERAL- It shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to possess a qualifying firearm on or after the applicable date, unless that person has been issued a firearm license--

• • • `(A) under title I of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under that title; or

• • • `(B) pursuant to a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, which license has not been invalidated or revoked under State law.

• • `(2) APPLICABLE DATE- In this subsection, the term `applicable date' means--

• • • `(A) with respect to a qualifying firearm that is acquired by the person before the date of the enactment of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, 2 years after such date of enactment; and

• • • `(B) with respect to a qualifying firearm that is acquired by the person on or after the date of the enactment of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009, 1 year after such date of enactment.'.

SEC. 102. APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS.

• (a) In General- In order to be issued a firearm license under this title, an individual shall submit to the Attorney General (in accordance with the regulations promulgated under subsection (b)) an application, which shall include--

• • (1) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant;

• • (2) the name, address, and date and place of birth of the applicant;

• • (3) any other name that the applicant has ever used or by which the applicant has ever been known;

• • (4) a clear thumb print of the applicant, which shall be made when, and in the presence of the entity to whom, the application is submitted;

• • (5) with respect to each category of person prohibited by Federal law, or by the law of the State of residence of the applicant, from obtaining a firearm, a statement that the individual is not a person prohibited from obtaining a firearm;

• • (6) a certification by the applicant that the applicant will keep any firearm owned by the applicant safely stored and out of the possession of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;

• • (7) a certificate attesting to the completion at the time of application of a written firearms examination, which shall test the knowledge and ability of the applicant regarding--

• • • (A) the safe storage of firearms, particularly in the vicinity of persons who have not attained 18 years of age;

• • • (B) the safe handling of firearms;

• • • (C) the use of firearms in the home and the risks associated with such use;

• • • (D) the legal responsibilities of firearms owners, including Federal, State, and local laws relating to requirements for the possession and storage of firearms, and relating to reporting requirements with respect to firearms; and

• • • (E) any other subjects, as the Attorney General determines to be appropriate;

• • (8) an authorization by the applicant to release to the Attorney General or an authorized representative of the Attorney General any mental health records pertaining to the applicant;

• • (9) the date on which the application was submitted; and

• • (10) the signature of the applicant.

• (b) Regulations Governing Submission- The Attorney General shall promulgate regulations specifying procedures for the submission of applications to the Attorney General under this section, which regulations shall--

• • (1) provide for submission of the application through a licensed dealer or an office or agency of the Federal Government designated by the Attorney General;

• • (2) require the applicant to provide a valid identification document (as defined in section 1028(d)(2) of title 18, United States Code) of the applicant, containing a photograph of the applicant, to the licensed dealer or to the office or agency of the Federal Government, as applicable, at the time of submission of the application to that dealer, office, or agency; and

• • (3) require that a completed application be forwarded to the Attorney General not later than 48 hours after the application is submitted to the licensed dealer or office or agency of the Federal Government, as applicable.

• (c) Fees-

• • (1) IN GENERAL- The Attorney General shall charge and collect from each applicant for a license under this title a fee in an amount determined in accordance with paragraph (2).

• • (2) FEE AMOUNT- The amount of the fee collected under this subsection shall be not less than the amount determined by the Attorney General to be necessary to ensure that the total amount of all fees collected under this subsection during a fiscal year is sufficient to cover the costs of carrying out this title during that fiscal year, except that such amount shall not exceed $25.

SEC. 103. ISSUANCE OF LICENSE.

• (a) In General- The Attorney General shall issue a firearm license to an applicant who has submitted an application that meets the requirements of section 102 of this Act, if the Attorney General ascertains that the individual is not prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm.

• (b) Effect of Issuance to Prohibited Person- A firearm license issued under this section shall be null and void if issued to a person who is prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm.

• (c) Form of License- A firearm license issued under this section shall be in the form of a tamper-resistant card, and shall include--

• • (1) the photograph of the licensed individual submitted with the application;

• • (2) the address of the licensed individual;

• • (3) the date of birth of the licensed individual;

• • (4) a license number, unique to each licensed individual;

• • (5) the expiration date of the license, which shall be the date that is 5 years after the initial anniversary of the date of birth of the licensed individual following the date on which the license is issued (or in the case of a license renewal, following the date on which the license is renewed under section 104);

• • (6) the signature of the licensed individual provided on the application, or a facsimile of the application; and

• • (7) centered at the top of the license, capitalized, and in boldface type, the following:

• `FIREARM LICENSE--NOT VALID FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE'.

SEC. 104. RENEWAL OF LICENSE.

• (a) Application for Renewal-

• • (1) IN GENERAL- In order to renew a firearm license issued under this title, not later than 30 days before the expiration date of the license, the licensed individual shall submit to the Attorney General (in accordance with the regulations promulgated under paragraph (3)), in a form approved by the Attorney General, an application for renewal of the license.

• • (2) CONTENTS- An application submitted under paragraph (1) shall include--

• • • (A) a current, passport-sized photograph of the applicant that provides a clear, accurate likeness of the applicant;

• • • (B) current proof of identity of the licensed individual; and

• • • (C) the address of the licensed individual.

• • (3) REGULATIONS GOVERNING SUBMISSION- The Attorney General shall promulgate regulations specifying procedures for the submission of applications under this subsection.

• (b) Issuance of Renewed License- Upon approval of an application submitted under subsection (a) of this section, the Attorney General shall issue a renewed license, which shall meet the requirements of section 103(c), except that the license shall include the current photograph and address of the licensed individual, as provided in the application submitted under this section, and the expiration date of the renewed license, as provided in section 103(c)(5).

SEC. 105. REVOCATION OF LICENSE.

• (a) In General- If an individual to whom a license has been issued under this title subsequently becomes a person who is prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, from receiving a firearm--

• • (1) the license is revoked; and

• • (2) the individual shall promptly return the license to the Attorney General.

• (b) Administrative Action- Upon receipt by the Attorney General of notice that an individual to whom a license has been issued under this title has become a person described in subsection (a), the Attorney General shall ensure that the individual promptly returns the license to the Attorney General.

TITLE II--RECORD OF SALE OR TRANSFER

SEC. 201. SALE OR TRANSFER REQUIREMENTS FOR QUALIFYING FIREARMS.

• Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by section 101 of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:

• `(bb) Unauthorized Sale or Transfer of a Qualifying Firearm- It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer a qualifying firearm to, or for, any person who is not a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, or to receive a qualifying firearm from a person who is not a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, unless, at the time and place of the transfer or receipt--

• • `(1) the transferee presents to a licensed dealer a valid firearm license issued to the transferee--

• • • `(A) under title I of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009; or

• • • `(B) pursuant to a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 established by the State in which the transfer or receipt occurs;

• • `(2) the licensed dealer contacts the Attorney General or the head of the State agency that administers the certified system described in paragraph (1)(B), as applicable, and receives notice that the transferee has been issued a firearm license described in paragraph (1) and that the license remains valid; and

• • `(3) the licensed dealer records on a document (which, in the case of a sale, shall be the sales receipt) a tracking authorization number provided by the Attorney General or the head of the State agency, as applicable, as evidence that the licensed dealer has verified the validity of the license.'.

SEC. 202. FIREARM RECORDS.

• (a) Submission of Sale or Transfer Reports- Not later than 14 days after the date on which the transfer of qualifying firearm is processed by a licensed dealer under section 922(bb) of title 18, United States Code (as added by section 201 of this Act), the licensed dealer shall submit to the Attorney General (or, in the case of a licensed dealer located in a State that has a State firearm licensing and record of sale system certified under section 602 of this Act, to the head of the State agency that administers that system) a report of that transfer, which shall include information relating to--

• • (1) the manufacturer of the firearm;

• • (2) the model name or number of the firearm;

• • (3) the serial number of the firearm;

• • (4) the date on which the firearm was received by the transferee;

• • (5) the number of a valid firearm license issued to the transferee under title I of this Act; and

• • (6) the name and address of the individual who transferred the firearm to the transferee.

• (b) Federal Record of Sale System- Not later than 9 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall establish and maintain a Federal record of sale system, which shall include the information included in each report submitted to the Attorney General under subsection (a).

• (c) Elimination of Prohibition on Establishment of System of Registration- Section 926(a) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking the second sentence.

TITLE III--ADDITIONAL PROHIBITIONS

[N0NJY]

That's what they're proposing with bill H.R. 45 if you own firearms. If they can do it with one right, they can do it with others.

They HAVE to do it with the Second before they can do it with the First....

[erps]

uhhh, so how is this any different than say... registering your car? or boat?

The difference as I see it Paul, is that having a car or a boat is not a protected right. And I see it as a slippery slope when the government starts setting a bunch of conditions on rights.

c'mon. you have to register your handguns now, you have to get the background check now.

Not in Washington State. We don't have any laws that would require people to register printing presses either.

"if they can register my guns, they have the ability to take them? " is that where you're going?

Yes, in a nut shell, but back to the title, would it bother you if it wasn't guns and the government required you to obtain a license before you could express opinions on the internet?

Please don't run with... "If it happens here, whats next, you'll need a license to have a TV?", cuz that just don't wash.

That's where I was runnin' to and if you say that the government would never start regulating other rights, well, that's good enough for me. Doh! They're talking about limiting conservative talk show by bringing back the Fairness Doctrine on that other thread. T.V. is probably safe though.

[N0NJY]

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

uhhh, so how is this any different than say... registering your car? or boat?

Yes, i understand the gun thing, ok, I got it. I'm from a gun ownin' and totin' family. I'm sorry, but I just don't see what the big deal is.
yea, another regulation. got it, that sucks, sniff, sniff... are you alluding to "if they can register my guns, they have the ability to take them? " is that where you're going?
c'mon. you have to register your handguns now, you have to get the background check now.

is this about a :"licence" to own guns? you have to have one for conceal and carry, where its allowed, so, whats the big deal?
Please don't run with... "If it happens here, whats next, you'll need a license to have a TV?", cuz that just don't wash.

1) No you do NOT have to register your handguns. I have several, they are not "registered". They never were. I went through a background check and that is all.

2) it IS a big deal. Period. No New Gun Laws. Period. The guns in your hands are mine are not the problem. Enforce CRIMINAL LAWS and get criminals off the streets, don't create "new criminals" by criminalizing them.

3) I don't need a concealed carry permit to carry a weapon. I need one to carry it CONCEALED. There's a difference. Right now, I can put my weapon on and go anywhere I want (in my state) except for Federal buildings or courthouses pretty much. Don't need a license, permit, registration or anything else. (Other states arent like that)

4) The Second Amendment clearly states we have a right to keep and bear arms. ANY attempt to infringe that right is INFRINGEMENT, period, plain and simple.

5) Yes, once your guns are registered, they can easily be FOUND and TAKEN from you if the government orders.

Ben Franklin, through his Poor Richard's Almanac said, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

Stopping BAD laws like this is the ounce of prevention.

So it does wash in the end.

[tommays]

The problem i see is that the GUNS on the street HERE that the CROOKS use all come here from places that pretty much sell them to most anybody in amounts that just don't make sense


And thinks like the mental health checks are NOT working because it would violate their privacy if anybody knew they to crazy to be packing

[scottyt]

the real and simple problem with laws like this are

it is a step to confiscation
criminals will still get and use guns
a lot of people will not purchase a gun just becuase of the hassle
it now allows for a federal fee to have a right
it allows the .gov to search your gun storage with no warrent
it will make lots of people who dont read the paper criminals
because they will not know they need to get the license
it will drive more guns in to the underworld, by those who wont get a license
the next thing you know, they will demand that who has a gun is public
info and the crooks will know where to go get em
the following step above will possibly lead to schools, churches, country
clubs, and or marinas going we dont allow gun owners here for the safty
of our other members



for those who say it wont lead to confiscation, there a lots of places that it did, england, aussie, germany in 1940, russia in 1910 etc

now you say some of those cases where in the early 1900's, but both cases lead to many millions dying.

here is a fun quote for you... i will answer who said it later

if the people want to play with guns they can join the military

now this is not exact but a paraphrase

[travler37]

If you do not understand what happens with REGISTERING then go back a few years when CANADA required it.And see how many law abiding people are now criminals with the stroke of a pen.........

If any of you have a problem...Better yet a soluton for what my daughter should of done different besides putting 4 rounds of 19mm wp into the supposid MAN that tried to RAPE her let me and her know...........
Mark

[N0NJY]

Originally Posted by cardiacpaul

I clupmped too many things into one pile, sorry.

We all do that

I was under the assumption that in order to "conceal and carry", you had to get some kind of rubber stamp from some lackey that said you weren't a criminal, weren't whacked in the noggin' and had at least as much sense as a monkey that could sit thru a class for some period of hours.

Concealed carry permits in MOST places require a background check from state agencies (in my case the Colorado Bureau of Investigation), and in other states, it's a similar group.

Also, generally you need some proof of "gun safety courses"... either an NRA type safety course, or something similar is acceptable. A couple of states or jurisdictions require that you take their particular course (perhaps from the Sheriffs office or something).

Concealed carry permits in many places (not all) are a "shall issue" item if you do the above things and do not have a particular type of criminal past. If you have an outstanding conviction of certain types of felonies (in particular violent, or using weapons in a crime) or you have some kind of "domestic violence case" (which are subjective most of the time anyway) you don't get one.

Now, they want to carry it a step further and want you to have a license to even own a weapon? In and of itself, its (in my opinion) not that bad of an idea. ONLY because it MIGHT weed out another layer of nut-jobs shat shouldn't be allowed out in public, much less have a 45 strapped to their hip.

Correct, this is where the problem is.. or at least part of it. Truth is, they won't weed out nutcases. The Cho guy that attacked Virginia Tech didn't have a criminal past, and could purchase guns. However, he had a "mental issue" that was unresolved and basically ignored by the very system that wants to implement this sort of thing NOW.

In other words, there are already rules and laws IN PLACE to prevent the "nut-job" from getting guns, through legal means. Placing MORE constraints on normal citizens, people without any criminal background, those of us who've never used a weapon "in anger" as someone stated in another thread here... are the ones being targeted for this.

And that is a problem.

Of course, the criminals are always going to have guns. and we haven't done a whole heck of a lot of good in keeping them off the streets.

Which is the gist of my argument. If we already have criminals running the streets, getting weapons illegally anyway, the only thing more laws do is prevent (and make it COST more) to the average guy/girl who isn't a problem to anyone. It doesn't stop CRIMINALS from obtaining weapons.

I don't know if a license is the way to go or not, but you've got to admit, that in some cases, and I don't know how many, if some dumbass had a gun, and wasn't able to pass a test, he might not ought to have it. you gotta be smarter than the trigger, right?

I suppose what you're saying here is that someone who's as dumb as a rock and got a gun, but doesn't know how to read - really ought not have the gun, right?

Not sure that is a legitimate test - but, then again, passing a safety test is an important thing. I had to pass them over and over throughout my life, my dad taught me the first rules of guns, safety rules. My uncles reinforced those rules as I hunted with various people. I never went to a 'school' on how to operate a weapon, until I was in the military.

I made expert the first time out, and I did so because I was trained properly by people who made sure that I understood safety first, and could shoot second. (So no, I never had to read a book, or rules, I got them told to me).

On the other hand, there are gang members out there on the streets will "illegal guns" (guns that were stolen from somewhere). There's no such thing, really as an illegal gun, only using it in some manner that breaks a law. (Even machine guns in the US aren't "illegal", it's illegal to convert a weapon to one, without the right paperwork. It's not even illegal to own them, with the RIGHT PAPER WORK)

This isn't to say that it would solve the problem, and I'm still a little iffy on what "rights" would be able to be take away due to this, but I don't really see it as such a bad idea.

No, making more laws to pile on top of already-existing, bad laws won't fix the problem. Making laws to make law-abiding, average people into criminals isn't a fix either.

I'm NOT iffy on "rights". There is nothing that can be debated in the Second Amendment. It's not about joining the National Guard, it's not about "allowing you to have a gun". It says the "right" "shall NOT be infringed". Infringed means to slow it down, negate it, or change it in some manner. ANY law made to prevent us from having and carrying weapons is against the Constitution. We've let it go long enough that they've usurped those rights enough.

To allow it to any further is going against the Constitution, period.

Ok, I got it, seeing as how driving isn't a right, its a privilege thing...

There's a difference in driving and owning a gun.

ok, understand that, but then, what about registering your automobiles for use on the public highway. another privilege? you can't "not" do it, if you're going to have one, right?

You have to register your car. You have to get a drivers license. Owning a gun and carrying it (bearing it) are in the Constitution as a right. Period, it's one that can not be taken without serious backlash on the entity or entities attempting to remove that right.

Remember this too.... everyone wants to equate the two things, and certainly in some instances they can have the same effect. A car can kill, the same as a gun, and sometimes in larger numbers. But one is in the Constitution, the other is not.

I mean, try driving your vega down the local main street without registration or plates, the local gendarmes get a little cranky about that.

True.

Now, as far as the "once they are registered, they can be found and taken" thing. Umm, has that happened at all with any other registered item?

Sure it has. The "RICO" act caused a lot of people to lose cars, boats, planes and other vehicles if drugs were found in the vehicles. Sometimes even if the owner wasn't AT FAULT, they still lost their equipment and it was taken by the government, but to my knowledge there hasn't been a time when the Government confiscated all boats (yet).

On the other hand there are several incidents where the government forced registration of weapons and the subsequent removal of said weapons.

oh, like cars, planes, boats? (ok, back in WWII they did take some boats, but geez) It does seem a little alarmist. no need to apologize for being so, but, lets hope that between the nutjobs that want all guns to be gone, and the other nutjobs that want to arm themselves at the local 7-11, we can find some common ground, eh?

Like I said a few days ago, being a little "alarmist" on a subject such as this should not be considered alarmist, it should be considered NORMAL. Many people simply do not like guns, plain and simple. They believe, or feel that if there were no guns, there could be (and would not be) ANY crime to speak of.

We all know this to be a false premise upon which to base laws. Criminals will always exist. If there are weapons to be had, the bad guys will get them. The next class of weapon (I predict) will be something very similar to a "Star Trek Phaser" (only it won't vaporize people, it will be a stun weapon of some kind) and criminals will get them, even if they are banned. They will make them, build them, steal them... whatever.

My point is and always has been in regards to weapons. They are tools. Use them as they are meant to be used. For hunting, sports, protection and war. Don't use them for criminal intent and there won't be problems.

Learn to use them, if you're of a mind to do so... and for Heaven's Sake don't try to ban them because you don't like them. I don't like Fords and Toyotas... perhaps I think, they should be banned too. But, that's ridiculous isn't it?