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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Off Topic > Politics/Religion/War/Government
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Old 02-02-2009
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Conservatism; what is it?

Here's a long article from Peter Berkowitz, of the Hoover Institute at Stanford, designed to address the current ills of conservatism. Along the way, he does as good a job as you'll find in describing exactly just what conservatism is and is not. Oh, he manages to through in a brief history of the excesses of the French Revolution, the debates at the Constitutional Convention, and the necessity of religion and virtue along the way as well. It's well worth the read for those interested in the theories that animate the political stage. It even presents a decent explanation of why liberalism isn't liberalism any more.

Take your time reading as there is a lot there and you might enjoy it more if you printed it out and read it at a more leisurely pace. That's what I did. It'll take twelve pages by way of warning. It's worth the reading though because very few great ideas, let alone philosophies, can be summed up on a napkin. Enjoy!

RealClearPolitics - Articles - Constitutional Conservatism
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Old 02-02-2009
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cliffnotes?
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Old 02-02-2009
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cliffnotes?
Things should be kept as simple as possible but no simpler.-Abraham Lincoln
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Old 02-02-2009
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wow next time warn us that article is looonnnnggggg, you said a lot but damn.

my first problem with that article is:
Quote:
But the purists in both camps ignore simple electoral math. Slice and dice citizens' opinions and voting patterns in the 50 states as you like -- neither social conservatives nor libertarian conservatives can get to 50 percent plus one without the aid of the other.
for the most part i see conservatives sticking together pretty well. the problem is the title of neo con's, they are not truely conservative, they are for bigger .gov, mandating deregulation, which is a circle.

i guess i am a libertarian conservative. i want a smaller .gov, less interference from the fed, the states should be doing most of the law stuff.
this country was founded on conservative rule, thats why at first we where a loose republic, but that did not work. the framers where scared of a central .gov, they wanted as much control in the states as would work.
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Old 02-02-2009
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Preserving what is traditional against the progressive change
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Old 02-03-2009
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Well done article

It replays familiar themes in conservative thought, and it is certainly true that conservatives will have to do some coalition building if they are going to see themselves in power again. But it is also true that they have to act conservative: they were in power in Washington for twelve years, and after the original pact with the voters that Newt Gingrich pushed through, did nothing to push the conservative cause. They were just like Democrats, but a little less.
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Old 02-03-2009
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Conservatives don't need to have fifty percent to be effective. They just require cohesive action. In my town of about half a million (that's a town on LI) about ten percent vote on the conservative line. But we have more influence than that, and Conservatives in several elected positions, including a seat on town board and the sherrif. We achieved this by grass roots legwork and passion. The republicans can't win without our support, which makes us an influential partner, not just a wing of their party. Independants and some democrats work with us on issues.
Democracy can work, but it takes work. Be active in local politics.
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Old 02-06-2009
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In another thread there is a great deal of confusion on what the matter of spirituality has in the founding of our country and the principles upon which it stands and functions. Given that most will not read the entire article above, I'll highlight a few relevant passages that may explain the matter more fully. Excerpts follow:

In fact, on the bigger question, the relationship between liberty and tradition, Goldwater did counsel moderation. In his San Francisco acceptance speech, he declared his party's dedication to

freedom made orderly for this nation by our constitutional government, freedom under a government limited by the laws of nature and nature's God, freedom balanced so that order lacking liberty will not become the slavery of the prison cell, balanced so that liberty lacking order will not become the license of the mob and of the jungle.

This admonition to balance echoes the argument of his short 1960 book, The Conscience of a Conservative, which became a bestseller and set the stage for his 1964 candidacy. In it, Goldwater contended that to meet "the day's overriding challenge," which was "to preserve and extend freedom," it would be necessary to restore "the delicate balance between freedom and order."

The way to achieve that delicate balance was to return to the principle of limited government embodied in the Constitution:

The legitimate functions of government are actually conducive to freedom. Maintaining internal order, keeping foreign foes at bay, administering justice, removing obstacles to the free interchange of goods -- the exercise of these powers makes it possible for men to follow their chosen pursuits with maximum freedom.

It does not follow, Goldwater stressed, that conservatives therefore have a narrow, mechanistic, or economic view of man. Indeed, true conservatism recognized that man "is a spiritual creature with spiritual needs and spiritual desires" and held that these "reflect the superior side of man's nature, and thus take precedence over his economic wants." But what takes precedence morally and spiritually must not take precedence for government. Government must be limited to its legitimate functions because its enormous powers pose a grave threat to the freedom without which man's spiritual needs and spiritual desires cannot be satisfied or developed. Keeping government within its proper limits gives families, religious communities, and voluntary associations the room they require to teach the moral virtues, and men and women the room they need to exercise them. The moral virtues both reflect man's superior side and are essential to discharging well the many responsibilities -- at home, at work, in politics -- that citizens in a free society shoulder.



The ambiguities of government, according to the authors of the Federalist, reflected the ambiguities of human nature. Born equal in natural rights but unequal in gifts of nature and fortune; endowed with passions and prejudices as well as reason; driven by narrow self-interest but through enlightened education capable of understanding private interest more broadly and appreciating its convergence, when properly understood, with the public good -- human beings can by reflection and choice, the Federalist taught, design political institutions that secure liberty while economizing on virtue.

Because choice was essential to admirable deeds, to dignity, and to happiness, virtue presupposed liberty. Conversely, liberty presupposed virtue, because maintaining the institutions of a free society was hard work that required citizens to exercise a range of excellences of character. And because religion -- or more precisely in America: Protestant Christianity -- was an indispensable teacher of virtue, liberty also presupposed faith. However, neither virtue nor religion could be the aim of politics because authorizing government to promote them would invite abuses of power and infringement of rights. Contrary to the canard, popularized by academic critics, that the classical-liberal tradition limits government's responsibility for virtue because of skeptical doubts or relativist certainties, the Constitution limits government to safeguard the sources of virtue, protecting the prerogatives not only of religious communities but also of families and citizens' association to instill it.



Indeed, success in conserving a constitutional system devoted to liberty compounds the challenge of maintaining a reasonable balance between liberty and tradition. This is because freedom disposes individuals to bristle at authority, to incline toward novelty, and to constantly demand enlargements of freedom's domain. This in turn further heightens their aversion to authority, enthusiasm for the new, and thirst for greater freedom. As a result, individuals who enjoy freedom's blessings tend to grow increasingly impatient with the order that enables free citizens to cooperate and compete, and increasingly less interested in acquiring, exercising, and transmitting the virtues required for prospering in private and public life. Thus, while conservatives' electoral fortunes may wax and wane, progress in freedom steadily increases the need for a constitutional conservatism that properly balances liberty and tradition.



In 1962, in In Defense of Freedom: A Conservative Credo, Frank S. Meyer, a senior editor and columnist at National Review from 1957 until his death in 1972, confronted the clash between social conservatives and libertarian conservatives head on, and provided what remains today the most clear and compelling reconciliation of their competing conservatisms.1 Meyer's aim was "to vindicate the freedom of the person as the central and primary end of political society." Crucial to his vindication was showing that a politics that put freedom first was not only consistent with but inseparable from conservative assumptions about an objective, abiding, and authoritative moral order. Also crucial was his claim that the synthesis of liberty and tradition that he sought to vindicate on a theoretical plane was embodied in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the ratifying debates, and, indeed, in the common-sense opinions and attitudes of contemporary American conservatives.

In Meyer's view, both the classical-liberal tradition and traditionalist conservatism had taken wrong turns. In the nineteenth century, classical liberalism embraced utilitarianism, which made the measure of policy the greatest good for the greatest number. This, according to Meyer, undermined the idea that each human being is an end himself, an idea that was central to the liberal tradition because it grounded individual freedom. And in the 1950s, the emerging traditionalist conservatives, who rightly understood the moral and political importance of virtue and the role of family, faith, and community in inculcating it, wrongly exalted the political claims of society over the individual and foolishly ceded to government responsibility for overseeing virtue's inculcation.

By correcting these mistakes, indeed by showing that each school supplied the insight needed to set the other straight, Meyer sought to establish that partisans of freedom and partisans of traditional morality were natural moral and political allies. From the traditionalists, libertarian conservatives could learn or relearn that traditional morality provided the theoretical ground for human dignity, and that it took families and communities to form rugged, self-reliant individuals. And from the libertarians, the traditionalists could learn or relearn that to be of worth, virtue must be exercised in freedom, and that families and communities, the proper molders of morals, can only teach virtue if government is restrained from interfering and limited to its proper function: maintaining political and economic freedom and providing for the common defense.


The above drawn from here:RealClearPolitics - Articles - Constitutional Conservatism
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Old 02-22-2009
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I think that the desire of many non-conservatives for more of the kinder and gentler conservatism that got the Republican party to this point is unlikely to rejuvenate it. Despite the calls for tossing the Christian Right out from the temple and a re-examination of traditional Republican spending on defense, leaving only fiscal conservatism left in the tent, all indications are that this form of conservatism is largely responsible for the crash and burn of the Republican party. After all, even Democrats claim to be fiscally conservative. The best example of this might be the current governor of the state of California. Hey, he did have the actor thing going for him; that worked out pretty well last time in California. It turns out that moderation in principles is nothing more than a sign of weakness within the Golden State and the current occupant of the governor's mansion looks a lot more like his predecessor than any resemblance to Mr. Reagan.

The state of California is in serious trouble, not the least because business is in full flight for the border, and the really bad news is that the Fed's are going to bail them out. All that largesse will do is kick the world's ninth largest economy's problems down the road. Prediction? Somewhere around 2011, California declares intractable insolvency. It's going to be uglier by far than what today already is.
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Old 02-23-2009
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If I had to define Conservatism, I suppose I would say it is the belief in and practice of a series of really annoying, often times counter-intuitive, heartless rules that nobody likes and few truly want to believe in. These beliefs and principles are so unpopular, boring, and so square, that were it not for the fact that they keep producing the highest quality results, it's hard to imagine how anyone could even be a Conservative.

Too bad there aren't any Conservatives, or any real Liberals left in the world. Now there is just a bunch of big government spendies .. spending. They spend on wars without raising taxes, want tax cuts without lowering spending, spend on new programs without having any money to do it, etc, turning big government into bigger government. The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is what they want to spend money on, and what they want the big government to do.
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Last edited by wind_magic; 02-23-2009 at 01:34 AM.
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