Thoughts on Socialism

[PBzeer]

In further response to cronyism, it isn't surprising to me that the masters of the political payoff, which is simply cronyism in different clothes, want to focus attention on Wall St rather than Pennsylvania Ave.

[lynxcat319]

Three cheers to sailaway21.I concur that Trump is not the most ethical man around,but you are very correct in stating that men like him have kept the rest of us working for the last 2 centuries,for whatever that is worth.I will not work for free,it doesnt keep me in the life style that I built for myself,nor would I ask another to work for me for free.It is much easier to bitch about others having too much than to work harder to have more.

[craigimass]

Originally Posted by sailaway21

Mr. Trump's role as a capitalist is to make money.

Along the way, Mr. Trump employs massive numbers of individuals, enriching them as well, adds to the infrastructure of the USA, and generates massive amounts of revenue to a confiscatory government.
...and that's all I've got to say about that.

Apparently, you forgot about the thousands - or tens of thousands of people that he is ripping off. Could actually be hundreds of thousands when the bond and stockholders are figured in.

Trump venture folds, leaving buyers strapped

As far as the C students and the F students being able to all be A students, that too is impossible. In capitalism without market regulation and moderation, only one can be at the top of the pyramid scheme. It takes thousands of others to labor for that person. Money is not created from thin air....in most cases. Trump, for instance, uses vast amounts of immigrant labor on his buildings in S. Florida......of course, through sub contractors and shell companies. This means much of that great government support that he provides is pure BS, of course.

It just isn't that simple.

And comparing trump with Ted Turner.....let's see, one guy started with a complete fortune and ended up ripping off tens of thousands of people for their fortunes and having his empire go bust a couple of times.....including right now.

The other one started with something....a Billboard operation left to him by his father (who committed suicide) and ended up creating the entire modern cable news business and MUCH more. He also ended up being worth billions without ripping anyone off. Furthermore, he gives away a good portions of this money.

Trump, meanwhile, continues to marry younger models and breed.

I think this illustrates the difference between the "raw" capitalism which has ruined us and the enlightened capitalism which can save us.

[AdamLein]

I find the story in the OP hard to believe. A university professor advocating capitalism? Inconceivable.

Regarding Cam's thoughts on increasing employee wages to create incentive. I think this makes perfect sense... but where should the increase be implemented? I suppose we can let the government come up with a Plan and then vote on the Plan. That usually works out, right?

The only moral way to change things is by educating shareholders and encouraging active participation in the highest level of corporate management, i.e. at AGMs. Unfortunately most minority shareholders probably couldn't care less. Furthermore, suppose a corporation with an active base of morally-aware shareholders (one that only elected Directors that supported Cam's way of thinking, for example) were to enter the market... how do you suppose they would fare, competitively speaking, against the entrenched model?

This is a serious question... I really don't have a good conception of how such a thing would turn out. I would like to believe that such a company would do better than its competitors, but I just don't know.

[PBzeer]

After reading your referenced article, I find myself at a loss as to just how Trump ripped them off. Unless you're assuming he went into the venture with no intention of finishing it.

[southernwind]

seems to me that you saying that people like trump "ripping people off" is like saying that your car dealer ripped you off.

you pay for goods and services, this is how it works in a barter system. if you are willing to pay then how is the man ripping you off when you voluntarily asked for the said goods or services. If the deal wasn't completed yea its ripping you off. Trump wouldn't have survived this long if he operated that way.


Guess I just dont see it.....


the government...NOW THAT'S RIPPING YOU OFF

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by southernwind

the government...NOW THAT'S RIPPING YOU OFF

Then do not use their services: roads, fire, police, charts, buoys, weather from NOAA, military.

[southernwind]

Jackdale I guess it would be fine with you if I just showed up to your place of employment and took say 33% of your check. or would you rather I send you a bill and let you pay it on your own.

cause one is theft and one isnt can you guess the right answer

[camaraderie]

Originally Posted by AdamLein

Regarding Cam's thoughts on increasing employee wages to create incentive. I think this makes perfect sense... but where should the increase be implemented? I suppose we can let the government come up with a Plan and then vote on the Plan. That usually works out, right?

Actually...probably as easy as getting a constitutional amendment passed!
Nevertheless...my point is not to have an enlightened managment...it is simply to put a FLEXIBLE cap on greed at the highest levels. That should have the saluatory effect of either CEO's working to enhance THEIR long term survival in the job (instead of their short term stock options) by building a stronger customer base, and doing the right things to enhance long term objectives.

We can argue about how this could be accomplished...but you can't argue that it works in Japan and Europe where executive compensation is close to traditional USA multiples. We would have no shortage of talent.

I am not really against the idea of a CEO being able to make 20 million a year if he brings that kind of value to a company. The problem is...I've seen first hand how they get the 20 million. It ain't pretty, it ain't right by traditional American standards and it ALWAYS hurts 10's of thousands of American workers and society. Time for this to change.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by southernwind

Jackdale I guess it would be fine with you if I just showed up to your place of employment and took say 33% of your check. or would you rather I send you a bill and let you pay it on your own.

cause one is theft and one isnt can you guess the right answer

In Canada, we pay withholding tax at our place of employment, actually in my case, the pension plan withholds it.

Taxes are the Basis of Civilization