Why Capitolism is still better than Socialism

[ssneade]

hey guys, guess you found your way here. shall we continue? first, i'm a libertarian, so nothing a democrat or a republican says or does surprises me. both parties have been at each others throats for so long now, and are so desperate that they'll do or say anything to get the upper hand.
what i mainly have a problem with, is even considering for one moment that socialism would work. how many countries have gone this route and are either no longer with us or are in desolate poverty or if they are even remotely succeeding, it's from sucking the tit of the greatest country in history, the united states of america. and what made us the greatest country in the world? capitolism!
now, we have one of the largest corporate tax rates in the world, second only to belgium. Belgium? if you wanna start this country going again, change that to maybe, the second lowest. you would see companies bringing jobs and a lot of money back home.
instill a completely different tax structure based on consumption, rather than income. y'know, i'd buy a whole lot more stuff, if i got my whole paycheck each week.
reduce the size of government, and limit the amount of power they have over us, not the opposite. i believe in maximum personal freedom, with minimum government involvement.
stop allowing frivolous lawsuits and limit malpractice suits that are driving our healthcare costs through the roof. after doctors pay an extortionate insurance rate and pay an inflated income tax rate for all the hard work he did in order to help his fellow man, there's not a whole lot left. and you want to put further chains on them? you truly are sick!
in the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness, quit worrying about what other people are doing, and focus on your own success. if women want to have an abortion, let them. that's between them and their maker. gay marriage? who cares. if they want to bite pillows in holy matrimony, let'em have at it. just don't try to shove it down my throat. (no pun intended)
education? you would think the government would encourage private education its less of a burden on the general public. but the teachers unions are really having a fit over that. teachers who need a union in my book are not much of a teacher. the should retain their job on the basis of merit, rather than entitlement.
unions in general should be disbanded as they promote laziness and an entitlement mentality. we have labor laws in place now, they're no longer needed.
immigration? if we sent all the illegal aliens back right this very second, we would gain at least five million employment opportunities. don't get me wrong, i have a lot of hispanic friends, but i rag the asses of those friends who are here illegally. there are laws that allow immigrants entry that should be followed.
punishing success will only drive this country deeper in a hole and will only promote mediocrity. that is not how this country was made.............

[craigimass]

Capitalism and Socialism are NOT competing economic theories.
And using one-size-fits-all ideas of each does not allow for the complex world we live in today.

I share many libertarian principles...such as I would WELCOME vastly higher "user" taxation as a way to tax in a more fair manner.

Many of the issues you mention are real issues - but certainly not black and white in the manner you seem to convey.

For instance, teachers.....OK, so let's say an administrator doesn't like a certain GOOD teacher because she rejected his sexual advances or some other personal reason. Without a union, this would be the norm.

As to immigrants......of course we are a country of laws and those should be followed. No problem with that. But your talking point about it rings hollow for various reasons:
1. I don't see white teens or adults lining up to pick tomatoes in Florida - and I was just there looking! I also don't see the sons and daughters of those here looking for jobs at chicken packing plants.
2. Without taking years to study the problem, it would be difficult to accurately figure out the impact of illegal immigrants on our economy. On one hand, you get your fruits, veggies, construction and vast numbers of other services and products at a lower price. Also, keep in mind that even illegal immigrants often pay taxes......yes, obviously they pay use and sales taxes, but MANY give false ss numbers and therefore have social security, medicare and even fed income tax removed from their pay - and, of course, they never get to collect it!

So all these issues are not black or white. Maybe you want that job picking fruit, but I don't........

What do they say. A Libertarian is a republician who smokes dope? Or something like that.....

[ssneade]

Originally Posted by craigimass

What do they say. A Libertarian is a republician who smokes dope? Or something like that.....

well, i did smoke dope at one point in my life, and i also am a recovering alcoholic. but enough about me.
let me repeat myself; maximum personal freedom, minimum government involvement. privatize these government programs and see how more efficient they operate. that would be a step in the RIGHT direction.
you, however would seem to have government hold a GUN to my head and force me to participate in activities i don't care for. is that freedom? i think not.your ideology removes any form of SELF reliance.
anyone will pick fruit if they are hungry enough. if we give the illegals life on a platter, how long will it be before they don't wanna pick fruit anymore? hell, for that matter let the homeless pick fruit. they're always holding up signs saying they'll work for food!
and the hot teacher getting hit on by the principle? that is what our sexual harassment law takes care of. but i guess if her poor self esteem sprung from government control has her thinking she needs a whole bunch of cronies giving her support, then that's what unions are for...........

[craigimass]

Here's one good example of what Privatizing Juvenile Detention centers has brought to one community:
Judges Accused of Jailing Kids for Cash - ABC News

It sounds like you mean well, but I don't think you have taken all avenues into account.

As to the relationships between those in power and those not (administration vs. teacher, boss vs. worker), many whistle blowers have learned the hard way that justice can just be a word in such matters.

Kudos to you for recovering from substance abuse. At the same time, there are theories which I am certain you are aware of regarding the idea of "dry drunk", one stated as:
"Being judgmental – This is a very destructive attitude for people in recovery. When we judge a person as being better than or less than, we are setting up a situation where we inflate our egos feeling better than other people"

GW Bush was a excellent example of someone who (hopefully) stopped drinking but was unable to mature emotionally to the point where he thought he might....just might...be wrong.

In fact, do you remember that press conference when GW was asked to name ONE mistake he made? He couldn't. How can someone who makes thousands of decisions not make a mistake and know it?

I'm only stating this in the hope that you continue to open your mind and listen to all points of view, rather than subscribe to the "view du jour" which seems to fit.

[Giulietta]

Captolism, is right there with Domocratism, Foscism, cotholicsm, jodeism, and Walmortism.....and other O diseases....

[wind_magic]

Ssneade,

The fastest way to get what you want is to let Democrats and Republicans have everything they want. It is like when you fly from New York to L.A. and then to Japan, sometimes it's just easier to keep going west to end up where you started. If you really want all of the things you say you want, you should hope that the Democrats who are in power right now get absolutely EVERY SINGLE THING THEY WANT - the health care, the currency devaluation, trade restrictions, every last bit of it, and pile on a huge bunch of Republican tax cuts right on top of it if you please. Stop trying to use common sense, stop trying to point out the obvious, just smile and hope they get every single thing they want as soon as possible - gun control, legalized drugs, war with iran, north korea, relations with cuba, nationalized banks, health care, nationalized industry, all of it, 90% taxes on the rich, every bit of it, hope they get absolutely everything they want and then some. Find the person you think is the biggest spender out there and campaign for them.

[ssneade]

ahh yes, the old dry drunk accusation. well, there was a time when i was quite angry and judgmental, but the fellowship i stand with now has helped me see the err of my ways. there is nothing like completing the fourth step and letting all of that baggage go. but thanx craig for your words of kindness and encouragement.
but here we are again at our debate. the judges, elected officials right? if that's the case, they should have bamboo shoots run under their fingernails for starters, and then tied up in the center of the range where us armchair warriors with our tow missiles target practice.
no, i don't think i am better than anyone. but i also don't think anyone is better than me. we are all measured by our successes and failures in life. but if you have a government that forces equality on us, you will destroy the dreams of the world. our schools are already looking down their noses at games of competitiveness. how about a game of chess where everybody wins? kinda pointless, huh? well it's TRUE! socialism works in the same manner. take a little freedom away at a time so maybe no one will notice. after a while all of your freedoms are gone, and you don't even know how it happened.
how to catch a wild hog: this is true. first you find where they are, then you throw out some feed. wild hogs are quite wary, but after a while they will eat the feed. next you put up a single line of fence near the feed. the hogs (public) seeing something different, will stay away for a time, but they know where the feed is, and it's good so they come back. then you add another line of fencing from an end of the first in a ninety degree angle of the first. again, the pigs are scared away, but they return for the free feed (food). soon you place a third string of fencing again at a ninety degree angle to the others and wait. soon the hogs return to the feed because it is much easier to take what is given you than to work for it. finally a fourth section of fencing with a small gate is added to essentially make a pen. the hogs can at this time, can only think of the free food (handouts). the go through the gate and as they are busy eating, the gate is slammed shut behind them. and whatcha got? a whole bunch of pigs who can't do for themselves anymore, so someone has to take care of them. viola the government. kinda like socialism, 'cept we would be the pigs. or should i say sheep?
hey windy, maybe you're right. maybe we should lett'em have it all........

[craigimass]

Without privatization, those judges would not have had the reason (greed) to send those kids to jail.

That is a pretty simple point, and I think it pays to look closely at stuff like that rather than bite off more than we can chew.

We can start with a basic premise - most people can be corrupted - and, in fact, when such corruption is expected of them (see Health Care denial of claims), they HAVE to choose between having a job or doing the bidding of their corporate masters.

The ONLY thing standing between the complete breakdown of the society is...yes, government. When a judge does not get paid for sending someone to jail, he has less reason to do so falsely.

I don't know much about hogs or pigs, honestly, so I'll leave that one to you.

But, again, congrats on the progress from whatever addictions you beat. I know too many people who never did.....including some who never made it past 17 years old.

I have an addictive personality myself, but have found a balance because my common sense finally won that war. As the Buddha said "Moderation in all things"......well, maybe not if they are not able to be done that way......

And I do apologize if you took the dry drunk thing personally. I did see it acted out by GW for many years and now by the likes of Glenn Beck and even Rush (Opiate Dry Drunk), and I think your real recovery will be helped by keeping the old mind as open as possible.

But it seems like you are in good hands and already know that.

Peace.

[ssneade]

absolutely no offence taken, craig.
i rather enjoy our discussions........

[jackdale]

I posted this in the Thoughts on Socialism thread. It may be germane here.

Jack