Dealing with Piracy...

[Mimsy]

Pirates vow to fight if attacked | International | Reuters

First let me point out that I am a tree hugging peace nik. I don't like violence and think it should always, always be used as a last resort and only after every other alternative has been tried.

That being said, I don't see how it is possible to do anything to the Somali pirates but to use force. Suggestions that they will negotiate the release of Phillips gaining a ransom and safe passage seems to me to be sending the message that piracy pays.

I'm really interested in others opinions. Is there anyway to send the message that piracy is not a viable career choice without using force? I know its in incredibly poor form to gain the release of Phillips only to renege on the offer of safe passage but I just don't see any other alternative. I've heard suggestions of gaining the release of Phillips, then shelling the cities which shelter pirates but that to me is making innocent bystanders suffer.

I find it particularly sad that the vessel they hijacked was filled with aid supplies for an impoverished nation. How very sad is that?

I'd love to hear your persepectives...
(normally I avoid political threads like the plague but maybe this transcends politics...I hope)

[saildork]

For centuries, civilized nations have considered pirates as enemies of humanity. There has been, and still is, only one solution to the problem of piracy, in this situation and in general. Their cost of doing 'business' must be set impossibly high or they will continue. In this situation, I would hope our naval vessels in the neighborhood are planning a mission to save our ship's captain, and send the pirates and their vessel to the bottom of the sea.

[Sailormon6]

In this country, hostage negotiators will keep negotiating with the hostage-takers, but they absolutely will not allow them to leave with or without the hostage. A SWAT team will only attack if they are convinced that the hostage's life is in imminent danger. That's what should be done here. The pirates will determine, by their actions, whether there will be violence. There will only be violence if death or serious injury to the hostage is imminent.

If the friends of the pirates are foolish enough to bring another ship on the scene, loaded with other hostages, intending to use them as human shields, our response should be the same. We should not engage in violence, except in the face of imminent danger to the hostages, but we should disable that ship, and not allow the pirates to leave the scene with those hostages.

Although there are obvious risks to that strategy, it has undoubtedly succeeded far more often than it has failed, and it has saved many lives.

[craigimass]

Uh, might I remind all our powerful and mighty gunslingers....that Bush #1 went into Somalia with all the power of our military as well as that of other countries....and then left (gave up) with our tails between our legs because the American public could not take seeing our boys dragged through the streets dead.

Sure, sink the bastards. But there will be more following, because life and death are cheap in such places. The real solution is patrol so they don't get out there in the first place.

Just like the death penalty does not stop crime, neither does sinking some pirates stop piracy. We have the tools - high tech and low tech - to form an alliance with the interested parties (nations, insurance companies and corporations) and make certain these dudes don't get out there. Heck, these efforts worked hundreds of years ago - before predators, GPS, radar, satellites, etc.

It is laughable that we cannot stop them now. I say it is more a lack of political courage and actually addressing the situation.

[CLucas]

Patrolling is a longer term preventative measure. In the case of this incident, I hope that snipers are being considered. We lose leverage and any control over the situation if the pirates succeed in bringing the German ship that was captured days earlier into the area. Zero tolerance - period.

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by craigimass

Uh, might I remind all our powerful and mighty gunslingers....that Bush #1 went into Somalia with all the power of our military as well as that of other countries....and then left (gave up) with our tails between our legs because the American public could not take seeing our boys dragged through the streets dead.

Just to clarify, in August 1992 under Bush #1 the U.S. went to Somalia with an international force as part of a humanitarian mission (operation "Restore Hope"). After Bill Clinton's election in November 1992, the humanitarian mission began to change to a combat mission and it was during his presidency that the debacle described above took place in October of 1993.

Many trace the military's solid indifference toward Clinton to this incident. Reading your post above, one might conclude that the events took place under Bush 1.

[craigimass]

Bush decided to go into Samolia and the mission failed, period.

I suppose the same logic would say that Obama is responsible for the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Be that as it may, I am very aware that the mission ended under Clinton. That is not the point. The point is that slinging guns were as ineffective in Samolia as they were elsewhere. American moms and dads and kids don't like to see their kin being dragged around slums of Africa.

The problem can be solved by enforcement and patrol. I don't think we differ on that we have no problem with them killing the bastards on that lifeboat, but that probably will not happen. Real life is NOT the same as the movies and TV. If only it were, we could end each action after one hour.


Patrol the waters. Also, look at the source of the pirates (lots of reasons for it) and try to dry up the well. In some cases that means giving them fishing grounds back so they can make a living, in others it means killing them or sinking all their vessels and driving them inland, etc.

Address the cause - and address the results of that cause. Do it all.

But I think we also might agree that we have not addressed this stuff - maybe now it will rise up in political importance.

[craigimass]

BTW, what are piracy laws now?
Are they still the same as way back when?
Does anyone know?

[erps]

Just like the death penalty does not stop crime, neither does sinking some pirates stop piracy.

Both stop that particular offender from re-offending through.

[erps]

I really thought we would be reading in the news this morning that a seal team successfully rescued the captain by swimming up to the boat during the night and killing the pirates.