Any cons here going teabagging?

[scottyt]

first the living wage applies to one person, not a family of 4. i survived for years when i started off as an electrician, bringing home 250 a week. my apartment was 500 a month, electric was 100 a month, gas was 1 buck per gallon. i made it with money in the bank. i saw maybe 1 movie a month, and i went in with a soda in my pocket. i did not spend but 20 bucks a month on entertainment. i did not have cable, internet, anything i did not need. my parents paid 18 a month for the phone in my house so they could call me, and i did not need it, and would not have had it.

also you math is wrong a family of 4 bringing home 630 a week before taxes will bring it all home plus more on tax day with EIC. they wont pay income taxes.

also a used car would not have a payment it would be bought out right for a couple hundred and repaired so that would balance out. maybe they dont have a car, my wifes family is from baltimore city, and have not had a car by choice in 10 years. my wife and her brother ( 28 and 30 YO ) do not have a license because they did not need it.

also some personal responsibility comes in to it, if you cant afford kids dont have em.

vacation, well vacation for me was sleeping in, and taking the week off from work.

i also worked 2 jobs for a little time before i had my apartment.

and for all of the above i was the union, who took more from me a month than i spent on food, between dues and ins which i never used. i did not have health ins till i was 26 by choice, except when the union made me, at a cost of 20 a week.

[craigimass]

No way they bring it all home - close to 10% for ss and medicare. Some states charge unemployment to the employee also.....
If they are single, they may pay some Fed or state income tax, but very little....you are right there.

When I give that figure for a used car - I am using my experience in terms of what even a FREE car ends up costing in terms of repairs, inspections, etc. - yeah, you can get away for awhile, and then go in and have a timing belt, brakes and tires done and you are $1500 easy. So, in the end, that is a low monthly price.

If we were talking about all those "good" community jobs being teenagers that is another thing. But last time I was at Wal-Mart I saw folks there from 17 to 70 working.

The question is not whether it can be done. I survived in a tent with a wood floor, then on $250 a week even when I was married and had a kid. But I didn't have health insurance and I'm sure $250 in 1975 is equal to $700 or so today......

Oh, just looked it up:
"$250.00 in 1975 had about the same buying power as $1,012.67 in 2009."

So, I would need to make 50K today to live the same as $250 in 1975.

My first real job as a laborer on a construction site - 1972 in rural TN...where wages were low....was $5 an hour.

That is the equiv of $25 an hour today...

Every single statistic shows that MOST Americans are working harder for less money...more hours, spouse working, 2 jobs, more debt, etc. etc......since about that time (mid-1970's).

The idea about one generation having it as good or better than the last is down the tubes.

[scottyt]

my 250 per week was in 95

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by craigimass

When I give that figure for a used car - I am using my experience in terms of what even a FREE car ends up costing in terms of repairs, inspections, etc. - yeah, you can get away for awhile, and then go in and have a timing belt, brakes and tires done and you are $1500 easy. So, in the end, that is a low monthly price.

Around where I live most people do this stuff themselves, they'd never spent 1500$us to change a timing belt, brakes, etc, they'd just buy the tires and have them mounted and do the rest themselves w/ either new parts or from the junkyard. One of my neighbors rebuilt the front-end on his truck just a few weeks ago after his wife was in an accident and smashed it up.

People with free/inexpensive cars have more of them since they tend to be in a constant state of repair, most of my neighbors have at least 3 or 4.

[danjarch]

Craig, being in the remodle/construction industry I can tell you that 35 an hour isn't the average wage. At that amount your most likely dealing with supervisers, specialized tradesmen or subcontractors. The later of the two would be expected to work unsupervised or even supervise others, provide all they're own tools and have years of experience.

So your comparing apples to oranges. A retail cleck who has a couple days of training, or a factory worker doesn't really compare to tradesmen. Me and all the other tradesmen I know are constantly reinvesting in tools and reading and learning new methods and how to use new materials.

There are plenty of helpers in the industry who don't invest in tools or try to get ahead. They make about the same as a walmart employee. When I started in the industry, $8 an hour was the going rate for a warm body, $8.50 if you had a drivers licence and a car. That compares to $6.75 for retail or $7.50 in manufactoring. So you seem to have lived a charmed life because most of the people I've known have figured out how to live on less then 30k a year and still find a buck or two for a vacation now and then.

[wind_magic]

I think it is silly to say that 30k$us isn't enough money to live on.

Fully 1 in 3 households in the United States makes it on less than 30k$us/year income - that's in one of the richest countries in the world, in most of the world people live on much less, and yet they manage to live happy lives, have children, grandchildren, enjoy themselves, and all the rest. In some countries yearly income isn't measured in thousands of $us equivalent, it is measured in HUNDREDS of $us, and yet those people manage to keep themselves out of the rain, eat, etc, and make their way just fine.

The problem with people in America is the problem with human nature, and that is that human beings will spend everything they have and then some unless they have some basic discipline and show some restraint. People have expectations about everything, if someone gets a plasma display then everyone thinks they deserve one, if the neighbor gets an Audi then the next neighbor thinks they should have one, etc. If you doubled the salary of the typical person in America it wouldn't matter, instead of the Honda they'd get the BMW, instead of 5,000 square feet they'd get 10,000 square feet, that's what Americans do, super-size things.

But think for a minute how your great great grandparents lived. Back then luxury was not having to walk to the well with a bucket for water, having enough firewood and coal to make it through the winter, having a ham hanging in the root cellar, having a few changes of clothing. People were fine then, they lived their happy little lives, they had children, got educations, same stuff people do now.

But now we can't live on 30k$us/year ?

Think how much money that is, seriously.

Think about what even 10k$us will buy in this world, imagine it from your great great grandparent's perspective, or from the perspective of a poor person living in a third world country - imagine how rich they would be if they had 10k$us in commodities for example. People talk about money like it isn't even worth anything today, they toss around figures like 1k$us and 10k$us like it doesn't even mean anything, but think about what even 10k$us will buy.

With 10k$us you can buy ...

57 POUNDS of silver.
200 barrels of oil.
11800 pounds of live cattle (about 10 cows)
16 metric TONNES of rice.
11660 pounds of poultry (about 1900 chickens)
77400 pounds of sugar
19400 pounds of cotton
43 metric TONNES of wheat.
nearly 1 pound of GOLD
Etc, etc ...

It isn't that people can't afford the necessities in life, but rather that people go out and spend 2000$us on a television set, 50+$us a month on cell phone bills, 25k$us on cars, and all the other "necessities" in life, instead of focusing on what actually matters.

The simple truth is this - the trouble isn't that Americans don't make enough money, the trouble is that Americans have evolved into a convenience culture that expects everything to be easy and trivial, and too many people in America think they deserve every single luxury that the world has to offer. If our great great grandparent's could see us now!! They'd roll their eyes for sure!

America doesn't have an income problem, America has an expectations problem.

[scottyt]

for 1/10 of each of the food items i could live a nice fat healthy year and have enough left over for mooring fees

[PBzeer]

We can rest easy though, knowing our tax dollars are being used to ensure Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of American Idol.

After all, what's a few billion to make sure no one will miss out on such a necessity as digital TV?

[PBzeer]

In a stunning display of fiscal responsibility, President Barak Obama has directed his Cabinet officials to find savings that will amount to 1/35,500th of his proposed budget.