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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Off Topic > Politics/Religion/War/Government
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Old 05-14-2009
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Now USA is more Socialist than Norway

Sorry, I just had to use that headline, it was too tempting and I won’t even defend it. It just struck me that in all the bickering over a tax here and a benefit there, some of you seem to lose track of the wide economic decisions and drivers.

So, I had to smile when New York Times today came with the headline: “Thriving Norway Provides an Economic Lesson.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/bu...er=rss&emc=rss

Some of you will read it and quickly forget, then return to the familiar arguments. It is not easy to be rid of stereotypes.

There is one clarification to make about the article. It says “(the government) authorized Norway’s $300 billion sovereign wealth fund to ramp up its stock buying program by $60 billion — or about 23 percent of Norway ’s economic output.”

This sounds like massive nationalization, like the US government buying banks and Chrysler, but this “stock buying” was in international stocks, many American; no local industry has been nationalized or anything of the sort. In fact, only our largest oil company has a major government shareholding – a very modest intervention compared with the large industry in USA relying on defence contracts, long before they started buying banks and auto makers.
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Old 05-14-2009
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Ha - you are Norwegian....I love Jotul Stoves......good stuff...
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Old 05-14-2009
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Originally Posted by craigimass View Post
Ha - you are Norwegian....I love Jotul Stoves......good stuff...
And I love Canadian mounties. Shall we trade stereotypes?
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Old 05-14-2009
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Nah, more than stereotypes....I have been intimately involved with the company in various ways........

And, my stereotype would be Rocky Balboa, since I am from Philly (that's Philadelphia).

Now if I really wanted to stereotype, I would say I really like the Maelstrom ride at Disney World.
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Old 05-14-2009
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Originally Posted by OsmundL View Post
And I love Canadian mounties. Shall we trade stereotypes?
I am the Canadian, eh?

Jack
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Old 05-14-2009
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OsmundL...while I may disagree with the overall economic approach...it is clear that the citizenry of Norway have some rather admirable personal traits and views on issues like frugality and credit...and the value of offshore oil drilling!
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Old 05-14-2009
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Ha - you are Norwegian....I love Jotul Stoves......good stuff...
Joe Tool strikes again.

Last edited by Sunbeam; 05-14-2009 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 05-15-2009
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I am the Canadian, eh? Jack
and to you Craig
I was being frivolous. You should really refer to me as the guy with the straw skirt, or perhaps a didgeridoo, or a Crocodile Dundee knife - I spent almost 25 years in Australia, so "home" is a moot point.
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Old 05-15-2009
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OsmundL...while I may disagree with the overall economic approach...it is clear that the citizenry of Norway have some rather admirable personal traits and views on issues like frugality and credit...and the value of offshore oil drilling!
Thanks, Cam.
I try to hammer this point for one reason only: to demonstrate that clinging to the stereotype of “socialism” simply blocks one’s learning from real-world approaches in other countries.

The oil is bloody annoying, because it clouds the issue. How many times have I heard that “yes, but your country is lucky” and that ends the debate. So, to clear up some basics:

1. Norway was doing very well before a drop of oil was drilled. In the late 60s, before they even found oil, we ranked 5th in the world for living standards.
2. We have, for at least a century, probably longer, relied on exports and a positive trade balance. Our economy is “open” and entirely market-driven.
3. Norway was always among the major shipping nations; its merchant fleet is roughly on a par with the US fleet, not bad for a tiny country. The fleet used to be bigger (much bigger than the US fleet), but new opportunities in oil platforms and related activity has diverted some of that focus.
4. Curiously, when oil was found in the North Sea, only US and multinational companies had platforms for ocean drilling. We began to build our own, new types. It took – and this is baffling – approx 5 years for Norway to become the world’s largest manufacturer of floating platforms, exporting to the world from South America to Australia, Asia, and now Russia. What the hell? Were the others asleep in class?

On “state ownership”: 40 years ago, we had some instances of state-owned enterprises: a coal mine on Svalbard; a cotton spinner; some aluminium/steel works… All have been privatized long ago. The government holds a major stake in Statoil, not surprising given (a) the sudden capital requirements and (b) an interest in not being dictated to by multinationals. In 1989-1992 some banks were taken over for the same reason that US does now, all of which have been returned to purely private ownership except one where a share is held. We have – I cannot repeat this often enough – no other government-owned enterprise – fewer than the US even before the crisis.

And yet, we do have some social safety nets and a common belief in building a country together. Odd isn’t it, that it is possible to do both things at once?

Last edited by OsmundL; 05-15-2009 at 05:58 AM.
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Old 05-15-2009
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Norway is a relatively small country with a largely homogeneous population of 4.6 million...
I'm confident any lessons learned will translate perfectly to a heterogeneous nation of 300 million.

An intersting story of success nonetheless.

They are to be admired.
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