Cuban Spies

[sailaway21]

While I respect the right of those two citizens to hold whatever opinion of US government policy that they wish to hold, they are not entitled under our Constitution to either thwart that policy or serve as agents of a foreign government other than as proscribed by the democratic process.

The honorable thing to have done in such a case is to resign from government service and then devote your time to changing those government policies. You are not entitled to subversive action from within the ranks of government service.

I, for one, think these two thoroughly despicable individuals should receive the fullest punishment available from the law. That they were "nice" people is completely beside the point. There are any number of despicable people walking about whom are otherwise "nice" people to their neighbors while committing reprehensible actions in another compartment of their lives. Call them what they are; traitors! Larry's allusion to Santa and the Easter bunny is right on the money since neither of those two caricatures exist, any more than these two nice spies exist.

Val's point is spot on as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with supporting the Tamil cause as a Canadian of Ceylonese heritage but do so as a Canadian without recourse to some supposed moral authority granted by one's heritage. Those such as Jonathan Pollard make the mistake of forgetting that they are supposed to be Americans first and supporters of Israel second. And, as suggested above, the honorable thing to do if you cannot support the country that provides you with wealth, opportunity, and security in your person and possessions is to move to that country that you support over your own.

And these two people are, if anything, not honorable. They are despicable liars and cheats whom are unique only in their ability to deceive others as to their true nature. I regard them no differently than I would my "good neighbor" whom is secretly molesting my daughter in my absence.

Thirty years to life sounds about right, unless it can be shown that they compromised the safety and lives of US agents or citizens. In that case, they should be hung until dead.

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by Mechsmith

As a Viet-Nam veteran I have very little faith in the ability or the desire of our governments to always do the right thing!

I certainly can understand loving Cuba and Cubans and still have an active dislike for our respective governments.

Keep in mind that the efforts of the Rosenbergs probably prevented the USA from using nuclear weapons in Korea.

Traitors to the US, they probably were! Traitors to humanity, they probably were not! Sen loi. (Sorry about that)

What a load of crap!

[bubb2]

Originally Posted by Mechsmith

As a Viet-Nam veteran , Sen loi. (Sorry about that)

As one Vet to another it is, Sin loy.

XIN LOI :

(sin loy) a polite Vietnamese phrase literally meaning "excuse me" or "pardon me", but used sardonically by GIs to mean "sorry about that", "too damn bad", or "tough ****"; sometimes misspelled "sin loi" or "xoine loi". Compare A-OK, CHECK IT OUT, GUSTO, FIDO, **** HAPPENS, AMF, ZIP, ZAP. [nb: various phrases have been used by 20th century combatants for protective disassociation, including: "There it is.", "It don't mean nuthin'.", "It ain't nuthin'.", "It's just a thing."]

[LarryandSusanMacDonald]

Sailaway21,

You may agree or disagree as you choose - but this is and should remain a discussion forum. "What a load of Crap!" is not discussion. We all have our opinions. Keep it civil. If you have issues with what anyone says, please state it plainly.

[sailaway21]

Originally Posted by LarryandSusanMacDonald

Sailaway21,

You may agree or disagree as you choose - but this is and should remain a discussion forum. "What a load of Crap!" is not discussion. We all have our opinions. Keep it civil. If you have issues with what anyone says, please state it plainly.

What about my statement was either un-plain or requires further discussion?

While I think I was as civil as was required by a nonsensical post, you might consider that the entire thread involves a topic that threatens the very idea of civility. Civility being the personal expression of civilized men living in a civilized society, and that civilization being her threatened by two despicable spies.

It is hardly my fault or concern that you chose to start such a thread here in a sailing forum with expectations that perhaps were naive. I do strongly sympathize with you in that, it is always a shock to find out that someone whom you thought you knew, about whom you've made some baseline assumptions, turns out to be rather less the person that what you thought. It's always unsettling to have been duped.

My "crap" comments will remain, unedited, as fully reflecting my views on the prior post but no fuller than the intellectual rigor of that post deserves.

[artbyjody]

Originally Posted by LarryandSusanMacDonald

Hey, I got my name in the Washington Post!

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines
Two check offs in the life experience category: meeting international spies, and my name in the Washington Post - front page - my 15 minutes of fame. (Somehow, I expected more when my turn for the fame thing came up. Ah, well, life is all downhill from here. Sigh)

Time for you guys to write another book - good read. Again, it is exceptional no real details of what was leaked or the threat they posed in the article. Previous reports like the ones on the likes of Walker, etc ... were immediate with tones and seriousness to national security. It certainly is being downplayed by the press and the govt.

BTW Sailway, yes treason is serious - but until such actual facts are exposed that indicate the actual nature of sensitive information that was communicated, they still have the rewards of the Constitution and trial by jury. Odds may be they passed info that was easily accessible by the internet. IN the article note the quote made about "Choosing the State Department because CIA requires polygraphs" - which kinda indicates that they were not veterans of the spy trade by any means. More has been leaked out of the State Department in recent years than any spy could hope to do secretedly anyways. Not downplaying it - but I think in the end what is potentially discovered is nothing less than a couple being tricked and seduced but didn't have the real irons to be the type that Walker was.

Since you are like a governmental / constitutional type - do hope you re-think your post as without actual facts that secrets were traded - being a spy in name only isn't exactly .. well again - everything reaps romantic on the story but lacks any hard cold facts.

[KeelHaulin]

Well Fidel Castro is now calling foul at the spy arrests; he is telling the world that the US is now trying to back out on lifting the political and economic sanctions due to the alleged espionage. The truth is that the US wanted to see some reforms of Cuba BEFORE allowing them any leeway; and that the spy investigation was ongoing for 3 years prior to the arrest.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ts-ridiculous/

[LarryandSusanMacDonald]

Okay, I started this thread because there were people who had a boat who were arrested as spies who I knew and I thought it might be interesting. Now it has deteriorated into a political sparring match.

I apologize if I've offended anyone. But I would ask the moderators to move this into the political/right vs. left/conservative vs. liberal/ shouting match where it may be totally ignored by people with boats.

Thank you and good night, Chet.

[camaraderie]

I don't care if all they told Fidel was the brand of cigar Bill (and Monica) preferred. If they shared information that was secret with a foreign government it is treason.
As for the Rosenbergs...they were traitors to our country...they did incredible damage and deserved what they got. Speculation on Korea is just that. We could speculate what else MIGHT have happened...kruschev's memoir said...
(Rosenberg) had provided very significant help in accelerating the production of our atomic bomb." Let this be a worthy tribute to the memory of those people, the memoir says of the Rosenbergs. Let my words serve as an expression of gratitude to those who sacrificed their lives to a great cause of the Soviet state at a time when the U.S. was using its advantage over our state to blackmail our state and undermine its proletarian cause.

Just think about how many things would have been different if the Soviets had not gotten the bomb so soon. Maybe the whole world would be different today. No Berlin crisis, the Hungarian Revolution successful, no Cuban missile crisis...an early crumbling of the Iron Curtain and maybe Soviet-ism itself and millions of lives saved.
That's why the comment on Korea is BS. Unfounded crap...just like my statement above.

[smackdaddy]

Jeez guys - take it to AFOC.

Hey L&S - did they take the boat cruising much? Or were they just gearing up for the big hop south?