what the self admitted looney left want

[sck5]

"By treating them as your garden variety criminal you actually defuse to a great degree the political aspect of their crime!"

Yes. I have always thought it would be a great thing for Osama to be put in the general population at Rikers Island where all of the murderers in NYC go. Believe me, there is nothing glorious about it and the propaganda value to al Qaeda of Osama wearing an orange jump suit among the riff raff in Rikers would be to OUR benefit, not his.

[PBzeer]

Grow some balls guys, these folks arent supermen. No need to cower in the corner and subvert our own traditions to beat them.

The tradition is, you turn them over to a military tribunal. But don't believe me, look it up. Or, you could read Mukasey's op-ed in the WP for the pertinent info: washingtonpost.com

I don't have any idea what you're obsession with "fear" is, but it's misplaced.

In America EVERYONE gets a fair trial just like everyone else. Even scum. Even serial murderers. Even child molesters. Then the whole world gets to see that they really are guilty and it isnt some sort of kangaroo court.

But then, KSM isn't IN America, is he? He's only in American custody. Nor was he captured in America.

And if you are wondering why they hate us, perhaps it has something to do with us supporting many of the dictators who rule their countries. Osama's original goal wasnt "to kill us all". It was for our soldiers to get out of his country.

And what country would that be? And why is he the arbitrator of who is there and who isn't? Seeing as how he isn't, and wasn't the head of state of ANY country.

He declared a jihad, which is either capitulation of all infidels, or their death. That seems pretty clear what his ends are.

[jrd22]

Originally Posted by kootenay

How long will it take for folks to understand that Terrorism is a tactic. It is a crime and should be treated as one. When you elevate these people to "terrorist" you elevate their act and are in fact complicit in furthering their political goals. By treating them as your garden variety criminal you actually defuse to a great degree the political aspect of their crime! By providing them with a Special designation and treating them under special rules you simply aid them in furthering their political goals. The society then becomes in real terms an accomplice in the act of terror.

Terrorism IS a tactic, a war tactic in this case. We are at war against terrorism in case you missed the headlines, have been for a while now. These scumbags don't need any "elevating" to terrorist status, they jumped to the top of the list all by themselves when they killed American military and attempted to kill a whole plane load of American citizens because of their insane belief in a radical Muslim jihad (war) against our country. You can play that semantics game and think that you are going to hurt their feelings by treating them as garden variety criminals, but they are laughing at you and you'll be just as dead whether a criminal or a terrorist kills you. Wake up, this isn't the school playground, these people wouldn't blink an eye if they could detonate a nuclear bomb in a major American city, they would just want more of them. What in world is it going to take to make you realize that these lunatics are serious and aren't going to quit if we are nice to them.
Oh, and by the way, the only "special designation" they should get is to be found guilty in a military trial and executed. How that could possibly make our society an accomplice to terrorism is a figment of your imagination.

[poopdeckpappy]

We are strongest when we stick to our core values

We have lost all sence of our true original core values, and I don't support the revised version

Case in point

Originally Posted by kootenay
How long will it take for folks to understand that Terrorism is a tactic. It is a crime and should be treated as one.

[kootenay]

Originally Posted by jrd22

Terrorism IS a tactic, a war tactic in this case. We are at war against terrorism in case you missed the headlines, have been for a while now.

See now thats the problem, your perception is you are at war with a tactic. Thats like being at war against tank warfare or rifles. Its absurd you are not even identifying your opponent correctly. As such you will have no way of know if you are winning, in fact by that definition you are unable to ever "win" or end the war.

If you cannot define your true opponent you will never win. You are not at war with terrorism you are in a conflict with Islamic fundamentalists over your stance on Israel for the most part. You can kill as many "terrorists" as you want to for as long as you want to and still you still have no resolution nor an end to the "war". In fact the very act of fighting the "war" gives your present opponents their greatest victory. You give them credibility. Its like a mouse scaring the crap out of a lion. The "terrorists" have you all so scared you are willing to abandon everything that is good and right about you to "fight" them thereby giving them the victory.

The scary thing is that most everything you are doing is making them more powerful and more likely to eventually be able to fight you conventionally or even more scary via nucular means.

[PBzeer]

This reminds me of the "Better Red than dead" mindset of the Cold War. Another war we couldn't win.

[poopdeckpappy]

Originally Posted by PBzeer

This reminds me of the "Better Red than dead" mindset of the Cold War. Another war we couldn't win.

PB, I'm not so sure we did win the cold war, it appears to me that the oppostion went underground and as Khrushchev said in the early 60's, the comminist party will devour us from within, I think he was the one that coined the phase winning without a shot fired

[wind_magic]

Originally Posted by kootenay

See now thats the problem, your perception is you are at war with a tactic. Thats like being at war against tank warfare or rifles. Its absurd you are not even identifying your opponent correctly. As such you will have no way of know if you are winning, in fact by that definition you are unable to ever "win" or end the war.

If you cannot define your true opponent you will never win. You are not at war with terrorism you are in a conflict with Islamic fundamentalists over your stance on Israel for the most part. You can kill as many "terrorists" as you want to for as long as you want to and still you still have no resolution nor an end to the "war". In fact the very act of fighting the "war" gives your present opponents their greatest victory. You give them credibility. Its like a mouse scaring the crap out of a lion. The "terrorists" have you all so scared you are willing to abandon everything that is good and right about you to "fight" them thereby giving them the victory.

The scary thing is that most everything you are doing is making them more powerful and more likely to eventually be able to fight you conventionally or even more scary via nucular means.

Kootenay that is one way to look at it, but it is just one way to look at it. I'm not defending the war or even taking a side on it here, but I will say this, I think you are too quick to discount raw military power. It's easy to say that killing terrorists begets more terrorists, but on the ground I'm sure it is a whole different story. Military might does crush insurgencies and people do eventually forget.

[wind_magic]

Here is what constant military pressure does to insurgencies ...



That's right, zero combat deaths in Iraq in December of 2009.