911 truth from an asset

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by PCP

You let out the Portuguese by ignorance or just to piss me?

Regards

Paulo

Sorry Paulo

Mea culpa.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by fryewe

Tell you what, Fuzzies (Bent, Bdub, tdw, etc), instead of calling Tropic names such as looney, or expressing that you are shocked...shocked...shocked...you tell us, that someone would consider massive force as a method to control the fanatic evil that seems to be out of control, why not comment on whether you think it would be an effective strategy. If not, why not?

well, the last time US tried that was with massive B 52 bombing over civil targets on Vietnam. It did not seemed to have the expected effect. It was in fact a dumb move that managed to have all the world's public opinion against US...and that had helped the North Vietnamese to won that war.

Originally Posted by fryewe

..

Tropic didn't suggest killing a bunch of people, only flattening sites that are important to them. Seems like a lot less aggressive action than trying to kill or enslave EVERYONE who doesn't agree with your notion of religious values, as the Islamists do.

Most of those sites are World Patrimony and classified as such by Unesco (that means all earth nations). They should be as precious to you as to the Muslim. Most are irreplaceable art masterpieces.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by BentSailor

Did Spain assist the US in attacking Afghanistan? Why yes it did. Was the attack in Spain after said assistance in said foreign military invasion? Why yes it was.

....

Not defending by any means any terrorist action against Spain or any other country is worth remembering that Spain is the only Christian Country that still has colonies on Muslim Countries (Ceuta and Melilla). On the rest of the world European Colonies are gone for a long time.

One of the last ones was a Portuguese one, Macau, that was rendered to the Chinese some years ago accordingly with an integrated plan set decades ago a plan that promotes cultural and economic exchanges.

There are no plan to reintegrate Ceuta and Melilla in Marrocos notwithstanding Marrocos efforts to regain sovereignty over them.

Regards

Paulo

[PCP]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I'm accused of having some moral high ground delusion, when I suggest REPRISALS? I never said, or implied, any morality was superior. I never suggested that anyone should follow my gods, my morals, my ethics. Or that they were in any way superior. I just said if someone can't play nice--and they insist on coming over to play with you--that you take away all their toys. One by one, until they get the message. Or as it has oft been said in Brooklyn, "Why don't you go play in traffic."

....

I don't see what you mean :"They insist on coming over to play"....it seems that it was not the Muslims that have interfered first with United States In America and that it was US that interfered first in their part of the world supporting Israel and assisting it to become a nuclear power, not to mention some invasions.

It seems that it was US that come over to them "to play with them" on their own land and that is the US that refuses to stop" playing wit them".

Regards

Paulo

[hellosailor]

Ah, Paulo, you disengeniously play the Palestinian Card about Israel.

Save that kettle of lies for someone else. I've had family in Palestine since the 1920's, and the only reason there is a "Palestinian problem" today is because the Moslem Imam of Jerusalem, a friend who stayed with Hitler in Germany during much of WW2, ORDERED the Moslems in Israel to flee for their lives, lest the jews rise up and slaughter them.

In point of practice, my family, like the other settlers who had LEGALLY BOUGHT their land, wanted their Arab neighbors to STAY AND BUILD THE COUNTRY. The ******** about Palestinians being thrown out is exactly that: ********. Their own religious leader told them horror stories and told them to flee, AND TO TAKE UP ARMS, and once they abandoned their land? What would you expect?

Yes, it is that simple. Arab leaders, Moslem leaders, have played classic Machiavellian politics repressing their own people with lies for centuries, and it is convenient to blame the Jews, the US, and anyone else instead of trying to actually improve their own lot. Arab princes who make billions...and subjugate their own clans.

Don't try to tell me that the US support for Israel justified the 9/11 attacks, that's ******** and if you believe it, you're incredibly naive.

Or perhaps, that is just part of the Portuguese reputation for antisemitism that started with the Inquisition and continued onward for so many hundreds of years? Including attempts to restart the Inquisition in the early 1800's, to cast the Murranos out?

"massive B 52 bombing over civil targets on Vietnam."
Really now, how wet is it behind your ears? What civil targets? What massive raids? Most of the B52 missions were over jungles, roads, or bridges, and the US had major internal arguments as to even allowing aircraft to fly over North Vietnam. Why don't you try to confuse a few more issues, or just come out and say you've got a delusion that the US is an evil empire? Similar to Portugal, which as I recall tried to exterminate the natives in Brazil during your own imperial days. By all means, muddy the waters. Before you discuss the US and Vietnam, preface your remarks with the comment that the US came very close to a civil war at that time. Yes, civil war. I was here and I saw it, troops and tanks called up against civilians who literally SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT over the matter.

But we shut it down without firing a shot, much less a bomb.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Ah, Paulo, you disengeniously play the Palestinian Card about Israel.

....

Don't try to tell me that the US support for Israel ...

In another thread the Israeli/Palestinian problem was pretty much debated with facts and I have contributed to that thread, I am no ignorant and I am well informed but all that is irrelevant.

The issue here was who was messing with whom first, Th Muslims in the United States or the United States in the Middle East, through a blind support to Israel, to the point of helping them getting atomic bombs.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Or perhaps, that is just part of the Portuguese reputation for antisemitism that started with the Inquisition and continued onward for so many hundreds of years? Including attempts to restart the Inquisition in the early 1800's, to cast the Murranos out?

That is just offensive and shows an huge ignorance.

Please document that (if you can) or apologize, I mean the Portuguese reputation for antisemitism. That statement is offensive to an entire nation.

Portugueses are justly considered among the most tolerant and less racist people in Europe.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"massive B 52 bombing over civil targets on Vietnam."
Really now, how wet is it behind your ears? What civil targets? What massive raids?

From the "Air and Space " magazine, quoting an American official involved in the Hanoi bombing (Hanoi is not a jungle, it is the Vietnamese capital):

When Certain's crew entered the briefing room at 11 in the morning on Monday, December 18, it was packed with over a hundred crew members. ... the briefer came to the podium and announced, "Gentlemen, your target for tonight is Hanoi," as a slide of North Vietnam with a target triangle over the capital lit up the screen behind him. This was the first time the big bombers would be sent against Hanoi's heavy defenses.
.....
SAC's plan was to split the B-52 force—which would be flying from Guam and a U.S. base in U-Tapao, Thailand—into three waves, all attacking at night, with four hours between each wave. The bombers would fly almost identical routes, in single file, to Hanoi.

.....The first B-52s flying into North Vietnam that night were a group of 21 from U-Tapao, Thailand. The 28 B-52s from Andersen fell in behind, and the 49 bombers moved single file from the northwest corner of Vietnam down to the southeast toward Hanoi..... B-52s, America's largest strategic bombers, some capable of dropping 30 tons of bombs.
....
The Vietnamese,.. insist that the bombing was meant to force them to capitulate and to withdraw their troops from South Vietnam. Thus, when the Paris agreement allowed the North Vietnamese troops to stay in the south, they were able to claim that Linebacker II had "failed," a belief reinforced when the North Vietnamese troops that had stayed in the south led the final unification offensive in 1975. But to completely understand the difference in interpretation, I had to realize that, in the Vietnamese view, Linebacker II was simply another victory in a string of victories in a 30-year war of independence. The proof that the battle was a victory was the final unification of their country.

The Christmas Bombing | Military Aviation | Air & Space Magazine

The armada attacked factories and shipyards, roads and bridges, airstrips and antiaircraft sites, barracks and supply points. ...These were among the priority targets. But the weather was uniformly bad, and the B-52 is better at saturation bombing than pinpoint attack; Hanoi's claim of high civilian casualties was propagandistic but plausible.

THE WAR: More Bombs Than Ever - TIME

Off course the targets were supposedly strategic but everybody knew that with the technology they had at the time it was impossible to mass carpet bombing targets in a big city without thousands of causalities.

Many Americans were against and that kind of bombing that was suspended by International pressure and byl intern pressure.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Why don't you try to confuse a few more issues, or just come out and say you've got a delusion that the US is an evil empire? Similar to Portugal, which as I recall tried to exterminate the natives in Brazil during your own imperial days.

I have never said that the US is an empire. It is not, Empire is a thing only possible on the old days: The first European one was Portruguese than the Spainards, the Dutch, The British, all those had colonial empires and that is not the case with the US, that it is a Democracy and a great country.

The United States an Evil empire similar to Portugal?

Portugal an Evil empire? I know that you think that today ethics are just the same has 400 years ago but even so this is completely absurd.

If you were not so ignorant I would say you were crazy

Regards

Paulo

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Ah, Paulo, you disengeniously play the Palestinian Card about Israel.

Save that kettle of lies for someone else. I've had family in Palestine since the 1920's, and the only reason there is a "Palestinian problem" today is because the Moslem Imam of Jerusalem, a friend who stayed with Hitler in Germany during much of WW2, ORDERED the Moslems in Israel to flee for their lives, lest the jews rise up and slaughter them.

In point of practice, my family, like the other settlers who had LEGALLY BOUGHT their land, wanted their Arab neighbors to STAY AND BUILD THE COUNTRY. The ******** about Palestinians being thrown out is exactly that: ********. Their own religious leader told them horror stories and told them to flee, AND TO TAKE UP ARMS, and once they abandoned their land? What would you expect?

Yes, it is that simple. Arab leaders, Moslem leaders, have played classic Machiavellian politics repressing their own people with lies for centuries, and it is convenient to blame the Jews, the US, and anyone else instead of trying to actually improve their own lot. Arab princes who make billions...and subjugate their own clans.

I have a Palestinian Christian Arab friend (and his family) living next door and he gave me the straight skinny on what happened to them. They were supposedly citizens of Israel but if they wanted say, a passport, there would always be SOME complication and they had to come back "next week". Needless to say that went on endlessly because the Israelis didn't want an Arab holding an Israeli passport. The same thing went on with any official matter - building permits, licenses and on and on. Finally they moved to Beirut before the civil war and got out to Canada. They now claim to be of Lebanese ancestry. I had to know him for 15 years before he told me the story.

It sounded much like being black in the northern States a few decades ago - no separate drinking fountains but the apartment or job was always "taken" by the time they showed up.

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"massive B 52 bombing over civil targets on Vietnam."
Really now, how wet is it behind your ears? What civil targets? What massive raids? Most of the B52 missions were over jungles, roads, or bridges, and the US had major internal arguments as to even allowing aircraft to fly over North Vietnam.

I think the residents of Hanoi and Haiphong might beg to differ. Perhaps you've heard the term "collateral damage"? Does the term "Christmas bombing campaign" ring any bells? How about "Rolling Thunder"? Or the fact that the U.S. dropped more tonnage on that little country than all of the tonnage in WWII.

It appears that you are one of the few living people who has not yet realized that Viet Nam was a gigantic mistake and pack of lies from beginning to end - NOTHING about it was right, it was simply outside interference in a civil war.

[jackdale]

The War Against al-Qaeda - Ali Soufan

As you've been hearing on the news former US Vice-President Dick Cheney is on a book tour in Canada. And at an event last night in Vancouver where there were protestors on the outside, guests on the inside paid a reported $599 a pop to listen to him.

Mr. Cheney and other top Bush Administration Officials were of course at the helm when the U.S. began waterboarding captives in an effort to learn more about the plans of al-Qaeda. Some protestors believe Mr. Cheney should face trial for war crimes.

Our next guest not only worried about the legalities of waterboarding, he says such so called 'Enhanced Interrogation' techniques don't actually get you good information. Ali H. Soufan is a former FBI special agent who served on the front lines against al-Qaeda and gained an international reputation as an effective counter terrorism operative and interrogator. He quit the FBI in 2005 and is speaking out about mistakes made and opportunities missed. His book about his experiences has been heavily redacted but it is still full of information, it's called The Black Banners: The Inside Story of 9/11 and the War Against al-Qaeda. Ali Soufan was in New York.

Audio

Cheney is in Calgary tonight, Vancouver last night.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/09..._n_984226.html