You are all right and you are all wrong!

[killarney_sailor]

Perhaps this should be in thread about the American economy but I think that the context is wider. A first comment, China has already easten the USA's lunch and is starting on breakfast and dinner. The Eu went runnning to China and not to the US for help with their financial crisis. The why is obvious and just proves my point.

The discussions in this forum are so idelogically driven that it is absurd at times. If the US is to solve its economic problems in the short term and longer term, ideology - left, right won't do it.

• Should taxes increase for the rich? -- Yes
• Should taxes for the middle class and poor increase? -- Yes
• Should social spending be cut? -- Yes
• Should military spending be cut? -- Yes
• Does the private sector have a big responsibility in solving the mess? -- Yes
• Does government also have a big role to play? - Yes
  

The approach to be taken has to akin to what was done in World War II or the Great Depression or the result could be a really serious decline in the US standard of living - even from its reduced level today. Everyone has to figure out a way to work together if the country is to be competitive for the 21st century. What has been happening in the last few years has to stop - it has been horrifying to see and will only get worse with the rampant pettyness from the top of the economic and political spectrum to the bottom. How this is to be done I really don't know? What is totally apparent is that the first step is an acceptance of how bad it is and how bad it can become. Then people, acting in good faith have to find solutions TOGETHER.

[WouldaShoulda]

If the solution is bigger, more centralised and intrusive Government, I'm not interested.

[PBzeer]

Before you can do anything involving taxing or spending, you first have to determine what government should and shouldn't be doing.

[Sailormon6]

If I understand Killlarney correctly, I agree with his general point. Selfishness prevails. Libs and Cons only care about lib and con issues, and both are only swinging for home runs. Neither is willing to bunt, to advance a man on base, for the betterment of the whole team. They care more about winning the debate than they care about solving the problems. The elderly aren't willing to give up any of their entitlements for the benefit of all. The poor aren't willing to give up any of their entitlements for the benefit of all. The rich aren't willing to pay more taxes. Everyone is selfishly protecting his turf instead of making the sacrifices necessary to solve the nation's problems, but, the problems are so big that they can't be solved without sacrifices by every member of society. That's what made the people of the WWII era "The Greatest Generation." Everyone was willing to make sacrifices for the good of all. They made do without new cars, they endured rationing of food, tobacco, tires and other products and they sacrificed the lives and safety of themselves and their loved ones for the good of the nation. Our parents and grandparents were willing to make any sacrifice for the good of all, but, having done so, they spoiled their children, and, now that we need another great generation, we are stuck with a nation of selfish whiners.

[WouldaShoulda]

Originally Posted by Sailormon6

A) The elderly aren't willing to give up any of their entitlements for the benefit of all.

B) The poor aren't willing to give up any of their entitlements for the benefit of all.

C) The rich aren't willing to pay more taxes.

One of these things is not like the other.

One of these things doesn't belong.

[erps]

The deal is, I think nearly every group would be willing to sacrifice, if they believed that every other group was going to do the same. That's why I liked McCain's 10% across the board budget cuts.

[WouldaShoulda]

Originally Posted by erps

That's why I liked McCain's 10% across the board budget cuts.

NPR and DOD should sacrafice equally??

[PBzeer]

Yes, all should share in the sacrifices, as well as the rewards. But as Ray pointed out, and decades of activist government has shown, no one really believes such sacrifices will be borne by all, just themselves.

As I said previously, you first have to decide what the actual goal is, before you can figure out how to reach it.

[WouldaShoulda]

Do you wish to imply that the good people of Greece would vote against austerity??

Greek vote rattles world markets

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Investors around the world reacted badly to news that Greek voters will get to hold a national referendum on the recent bailout deal aimed at preventing a default on the country's sovereign debt.

"Recent polls suggests that nearly 60% of Greeks see the new deal for Greece as either 'negative' or 'probably negative,'" they said. "Further austerity is almost a given in exchange for the latest bailout but there seems to be increasing chatter about the potential loss of sovereignty."

Greek vote rattles world markets - Nov. 1, 2011

[SloopJonB]

Originally Posted by killarney_sailor

Perhaps this should be in thread about the American economy but I think that the context is wider. A first comment, China has already easten the USA's lunch and is starting on breakfast and dinner. The Eu went runnning to China and not to the US for help with their financial crisis. The why is obvious and just proves my point.

The discussions in this forum are so idelogically driven that it is absurd at times. If the US is to solve its economic problems in the short term and longer term, ideology - left, right won't do it.

• Should taxes increase for the rich? -- Yes
• Should taxes for the middle class and poor increase? -- Yes
• Should social spending be cut? -- Yes
• Should military spending be cut? -- Yes
• Does the private sector have a big responsibility in solving the mess? -- Yes
• Does government also have a big role to play? - Yes
  

The approach to be taken has to akin to what was done in World War II or the Great Depression or the result could be a really serious decline in the US standard of living - even from its reduced level today. Everyone has to figure out a way to work together if the country is to be competitive for the 21st century. What has been happening in the last few years has to stop - it has been horrifying to see and will only get worse with the rampant pettyness from the top of the economic and political spectrum to the bottom. How this is to be done I really don't know? What is totally apparent is that the first step is an acceptance of how bad it is and how bad it can become. Then people, acting in good faith have to find solutions TOGETHER.

Well said!