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Maravilloso 07-10-2013 01:34 AM

Sizes of genoas
 
hi,
i sail a huges 38 mk1 in Progreso, Yucatan, Mexico.
The members of our club asking west florida HPRF for the hadicaps of our boats.
I measured the size of my genoa and it was 160%. We won one of the regattas
ans some felow captains wanted to measure our genoa again.
Maybe i made a mistake in the measurements, and the new sizes was 162%
is there any diferent between 160% and 162% in hadicaps.?

SchockT 07-10-2013 03:38 AM

Re: Sizes of genoas
 
Sails are not normally handicapped using the simple overlap percentage you are referring to. The measurements of the sail are used to calculate sail area and then compared to the standard sail area for the particular boat. If a proper phrf handicap was generated the certificate would list your genoa "code". A code 5 genoa would be standard with no adjustment to your rating. A higher number would be oversize, and a lower number would be undersize with corrections to your rating applied appropriately.

Having said that I just looked at the WFPHRF website, and they do indeed seem to ask for genoa size as a percentage! Whether 2% will change your rating depends on the formula they have come up with, and how close your sail is to the next "code".

Realistically I doubt it will make much difference on paper OR on the water. If you ask me it is pretty bad form for your fellow club members to challenge you on your handicap and your sail measurements after a race! It pretty much implies that you were cheating and that is why you won! If they really wanted to confirm sail measurements they should have EVERYONE bring their sails up and measure them all over some beers rather than single you out because you won!

SHNOOL 07-10-2013 08:02 AM

Re: Sizes of genoas
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SchockT (Post 1056867)
If you ask me it is pretty bad form for your fellow club members to challenge you on your handicap and your sail measurements after a race! It pretty much implies that you were cheating and that is why you won! If they really wanted to confirm sail measurements they should have EVERYONE bring their sails up and measure them all over some beers rather than single you out because you won!

Schock really? How long have you been racing (I kid of course I know you've been racing forever)? The winner ALWAYS gets the most scrutiny, especially for handicap racing.

sailingfool 07-10-2013 10:39 AM

Re: Sizes of genoas
 
Here's how PHRF NE sets adjustments:
PHRF New England - Handicapping - Handicap Adjustments

In these area rules there is in fact a penalty for 160.1%+.

zz4gta 07-10-2013 10:54 AM

Re: Sizes of genoas
 
What do the rules say? In PHRF of the Ches Bay you can have up to a 155%. Anything bigger you get dinged. A lot. Rules are rules and ignorance doesn't imply innocents.

overbored 07-10-2013 11:28 AM

Re: Sizes of genoas
 
in most PHRF rules the the boats are rated with a 155% genoa. 155.1 to 160 cost you 3 points and 160.1 to 170 another 3 points

jgeissinger 07-10-2013 11:35 AM

Re: Sizes of genoas
 
To ditto Shnool above, there is absolutely nothing wrong with filing a protest for a suspected equipment violation. That being said, it is far more likely that your measurements are not accurate. I've never heard of a sail maker making a 160% (or 162%) genoa. 150% is the common measurement, with 155% allowed as the max to account for stretch and variations. It is easy to be slightly off when you measure the 90 degree angle at the luff to get the accurate LP measurement. Something more obvious, like a 170% (which are occasionally made) might be more apparent. I would bet money you have a 155%.

Sailormon6 07-10-2013 11:45 AM

Re: Sizes of genoas
 
I just looked at the West Florida phrf Rules, and APPENDIX C addresses Adjustments To Ratings. Paragraph 1.0 says a sail measuring more than 155% and up to and including 165% has a -3 adjustment. If those are the rules under which you are racing, your sail should be ok, as being within those parameters.

Nevertheless, as you can see, measurements should be very carefully made, because any inaccuracy can, at the least, be embarrassing, and at the worst, it can be embarrassing AND cost you a victory.

overbored 07-10-2013 11:47 AM

Re: Sizes of genoas
 
what was your measurement your boat should have LP for a 155 of 6850 mm
J= 14.5"/ 4419.6mm times 1.55 = LP 22.475' /6850.38 mm

aelkin 07-10-2013 01:29 PM

Re: Sizes of genoas
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jgeissinger (Post 1056965)
That being said, it is far more likely that your measurements are not accurate. I've never heard of a sail maker making a 160% (or 162%) genoa. 150% is the common measurement, with 155% allowed as the max to account for stretch and variations. It is easy to be slightly off when you measure the 90 degree angle at the luff to get the accurate LP measurement. Something more obvious, like a 170% (which are occasionally made) might be more apparent. I would bet money you have a 155%.

jg - fairly new fella here, but I don't know that I can agree with you on this one.
I have a C&C 35MK1, and the 'standard' No 1. Genoa used for racing these boats is 167% (if not cut for roller furling).
My 167% was subsequently cut down to 155%, and my stock #2 150% was cut down to 135%.

I think it's maybe narrow-minded to suggest to someone that just because you've never heard of it, it doesn't exist, and instead imply that the OP can't measure....?


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