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  #51  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic30 View Post
So: Boat B never wins over boat A every single time, because, outside of an environment as controlled as pure Class Racing like the AC or the Olympics, all else isn't equal and never is.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
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  #52  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

Schock your points understood ...not criticizing design for racing and im withdrawing the comment rather have to endlessly qualify it. I was not specific enough at the get go
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  #53  
Old 08-16-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I agree with you Jeff. I'm kind of intentionally splitting hairs here because it's another important angle in the debate, I think.

In racing, so much emphasis is put on gear/sails/weight/etc. that I think it gets kind of ridiculous - at least in the context of most all "amateur" racing out there. Granted, I can definitely see where these things can make a real difference in in-shore buoy racing, especially where the boats are pretty evenly matched and finishes are counted in seconds or less. Every item counts. AND, I can totally see your point about small increments adding up to huge numbers over time in an off-shore race. That 10 seconds per mile would add up to 5 hours in the Race to the Border we did.

But, the problem with this idea is exactly what you point out above - these things do matter, BUT good sailing is the key. Always. That's why a "hardcore racer" can look like a real idiot if he goes full bore on all the above, but continually loses because he's not very good at sailing.

I think the AC has been a great example of these kinds of differences. Is it the boat/rudders/foils that have Artemis on the ropes in every single race? Or is it their inability to really sail that boat? I think it's the latter.

So, yes, all this stuff is important. But not nearly as much as most racers think it is at the level they're racing.
The condensed version of what you're saying here, is and has been my philosophy:

Make good Indians, then give them good arrows.
(crew proficiency before fancy gear)

Last year, we spent one series in the non-spin division, stalled out in 3-5kts of breeze, but the crew got proficient with the white sails.

Next, I bought a crappy spinnaker for $150 and entered us in PHRF C.
The crew got pretty proficient with it. Never a shrimp, never an hourglass or a forestay wrap. We needed to get better at gybing though.

Now, I have a better spinnaker, a kevlar 155% genoa, and a high-tech jib halyard that zzgta made for me.

As my Indians get to be better hunters, I buy them better arrows.
Next year, I hope to improve the quality of the boat's bottom.
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  #54  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

Some good info on the water issue from CD and Coquina:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
No way. Surely that was in jest.

We, as cruisers with kids and a fat Bulldog don't go through anywhere NEAR that much water... even with showers and washing dishes in fresh water. Realistically, we can make it 14 days @135g with good conservation. Good conservation is salt water washes, fresh water rinses, and very brief showers which likely wont be everyday. If we take showers everyday and fresh water washes and are generally non-conservative, we are about 10-12 days. If we had to, we could push the two week limit (and if we were crossing the ocean, we would have to). In the marina, we can go under the 12 days - esp if the kids do the dishes.

Now, in fairness, we do drink gatorades and keep water bottles around for hikes or outings. But we also drink alcoholic beverages and we will generally keep a 5g bucket of water with ammonia in it for washing which could get refilled depending on spaghetti-to-mouth malfunctions. SO realistic numbers are 8g/day for us pretty conservative but comfortable. This will include the periodic showers and fresh water rinses for dishes. Also, as you increase the people, you can decrease some of the water/pp. THis is because a single person may still have to fill the 5g bucket of fresh water or the sink for rinses. But that same water can be used by others without decreasing the supply.

You also need to add into this discussion (as Jane pointed out) that you will be getting water from foods. If you eat a can of brothy soup, you probably are not going to drink a large cup of water afterwards. SO depending on the foods (excluding alcohol, that is ridiculous), you may not use as much water. Also, your suggestion for a 10 day reserve on top of that is ludicrous. Using your numbers, some boats may not even carry 10 days worth of water for that crew!

Regarding the watermaker, there is no way in Hades that I would have the lives of my crew dependent on a mechanical piece of equipment that could fail without warning. Like Nick did, I would have it as a backup, not as a primary use. If he says he can do it, and has done it, on 1g of water/person - I will take his word for it. THat would not be my comfort level, but with severe conservation, I can see how that could work (also including food/soups and excluding alcohol).

My opinion (and real life experience).

Brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coquina View Post
Offshore you wash things in SALT water. Fresh is only for a rinse. Joy soap is famous for sudsing in salt water Most old-time watermaker-less cruisers only showered when nature provided the shower during a rainstorm. You can catch a LOT of water during rainstorms too if you have a good setup. If you just HAVE to clean yourself, a wipedown can be done with a washcloth and around a quart of water.
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  #55  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

As far as racing goes, if you want water you wash in ocean water. Only did that once in a 4 day race. Most of the time it's baby wipes = no water.
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  #56  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

Same here. I always have a pack or two of wipes in my go-bag. They work great. The water is for cooking and drinking.

Here's a question - on the boat I've been racing on we typically do these awesome home-made frozen meals in a freezer/boiler bag. You just get a pot of water going, throw the bag of chow and a bag of rice in - then serve hot. This has been some amazing food (shrimp bisque, red beans and rice with sausage, spaghetti, ravioli, etc.).

I assume you can use saltwater for the boiling since the food is in the bags (won't transfer more salt into them) - but am not sure about that. Any advice?
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  #57  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post

I assume you can use saltwater for the boiling since the food is in the bags (won't transfer more salt into them) - but am not sure about that. Any advice?
Not sure, but you will need to carry an extra pound or two of propane, since the boiling point is higher for salt water. Probably not a great idea if you are a serious racer....

Hey, you said home - made frozen meals in a freezer/boiler bag. Yum! where do I order these? About the rice, it depends on what you are using. My wife says that with some of the rice in bags, the bag is permeable. Could be a problem.

Hey man, let me know if you need crew for the Harvest Moon Regatta next year! I'll fly in, cause I miss Texas!

Ralph
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  #58  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTB View Post
Not sure, but you will need to carry an extra pound or two of propane, since the boiling point is higher for salt water. Probably not a great idea if you are a serious racer....

Hey, you said home - made frozen meals in a freezer/boiler bag. Yum! where do I order these? About the rice, it depends on what you are using. My wife says that with some of the rice in bags, the bag is permeable. Could be a problem.

Hey man, let me know if you need crew for the Harvest Moon Regatta next year! I'll fly in, cause I miss Texas!

Ralph
Just remember, they don't call me "Crazy Harry" for nothing.
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  #59  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

So, if I ever sail with you, do I call you "Crazy Harry"? Lol. So, you guys had a working freezer on Blame It On Buffett? Cool! Sounds like the boat to be on. You lucked out finding that boat to crew on. How did that come about, if I may ask?

It sounds way better than crewing on Rhapsody.

Ralph
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Last edited by RTB; 08-22-2013 at 07:43 PM.
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  #60  
Old 08-22-2013
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Re: Slow Racing or Fast Cruising?

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So, if I ever sail with you, do I call you "Crazy Harry"? Lol. So, you guys had a working freezer on Blame It On Buffett? Cool! Sounds like the boat to be on.

Ralph
Dude it was absolutely awesome. The kicker is we won on BIOB...AND had great food and great fun!
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