AC 34 - What If? - Page 19 - SailNet Community

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  #181  
Old 09-26-2013
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Re: Pivotal Point - Going Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB View Post
As Minnewaska says, instead of the standard same course each day, mix it up. It would be cool to see a true downwind start, a triangle course, etc. I do like the shorter, multiple race/day format.
Yeah that would be cool.

They could do that in the NASCAR series too. This week they could go clockwise. Next week the other way. Maybe a figure 8 course could add some excitement. Maybe they could change the grid iron rule. Maybe have them play on a triangle with three teams. But only on dates with even numbers. Maybe for fun they can change Wimbledon to a square court.

Most sports have the same field/court/track/course for every game. The reason the nature of the AC course has changed (no windward starts, beam reach finish, etc) is because the boats that they are racing are not able to bob and weave the way others in history did. A collision of two yachts at 9 knots wouldn't even spill the beer. At closing speeds of potentially 75 knots, a collision will kill a whole lot of people. Even with only one boat involved in an accident, someone died.

If I recall the AC series I watched in 2003 in Auckland, the course was different only inasmuch as it moved from place to place in the Gulf but that that was not to make it different, it was so that the course could actually stay the same. It was changed so that they could still have a windward start, two beats and two runs which used to be classic AC.

AFAIK it has in modern times always been that way. Why would it want to change now?
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Last edited by Omatako; 09-27-2013 at 12:22 AM.
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  #182  
Old 09-26-2013
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Re: AC 34 - What If?

I agree Oma. The set course is a good direction.
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  #183  
Old 09-26-2013
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Re: AC 34 - What If?

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I'd sure like to know what they chaged on OR to get that kind of boost. I think a huge part of it was BenA...but he couldn't have been all of it.
It was the foils.

Without dropping a bunch of names all over the floor, I heard that from a pretty close, reliable source.
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  #184  
Old 09-26-2013
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Re: AC 34 - What If?

That makes sense. The way they were consistently foiling upwind compared to NZ was pretty incredible.
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  #185  
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Re: Pivotal Point - Going Forward

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Originally Posted by AlaskaMC View Post
I have found the same thing. Just got off the phone with a colleague that has little to no interest in sailing and he was very excited about the race and had watched it on TV with his family. So, maybe, just maybe this will actually increase interest in sailing in the US. That would be just awesome.
Racing fleets have been in a huge decline over here in Oz. There is a huge crew recruitment drive on at my club.

Yet James Spithill was a youth development graduate of this club, one of our very own, and the vibe down here at Wednesday afternoon racing was just electric. I was actually only there to check the batteries on my boat, but i couldn't help it and I hopped on a boat and went racing.

I get the cynicism, the dust will settle and maybe very little will change. Then again maybe seeds have been sown.

The dock I walked down this morning with a trolley of biodegradable toilet paper and cleaning products is actually the one where a teenage Jimmy Spithill used to go out match racing on the club boats. It's also where a couple of Olympic gold medallists learn't to sail as well. It's a plain old looking dock on Sydney's northern beaches, no glory or glamour here, just seagull crap.
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  #186  
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Re: AC 34 - What If?

I'm not a NASCAR aficionado, but I believe the tracks do differ from one to another, if not the direction itself. Aren't some longer or shorter, with different turn radius and/or banking? Grid irons from game to game are indoor and out, artificial and natural turf, played during the day and night, sun and snow. They play home and away, which mixes up the crew dynamics.

To each their own, but I would find the AC more interesting, if it were a decathlon more than a best out of 17 series around the same track in conditions that have to be within narrow parameters because the voluntarily chosen equipment is too dangerous otherwise.
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  #187  
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Re: AC 34 - What If?

I think this sums it up from my perspective.

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  #188  
Old 09-27-2013
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Re: Pivotal Point - Going Forward

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Originally Posted by Omatako View Post
Yeah that would be cool.

They could do that in the NASCAR series too. This week they could go clockwise. Next week the other way. Maybe a figure 8 course could add some excitement. Maybe they could change the grid iron rule. Maybe have them play on a triangle with three teams. But only on dates with even numbers. Maybe for fun they can change Wimbledon to a square court.

Most sports have the same field/court/track/course for every game. The reason the nature of the AC course has changed (no windward starts, beam reach finish, etc) is because the boats that they are racing are not able to bob and weave the way others in history did. A collision of two yachts at 9 knots wouldn't even spill the beer. At closing speeds of potentially 75 knots, a collision will kill a whole lot of people. Even with only one boat involved in an accident, someone died.

If I recall the AC series I watched in 2003 in Auckland, the course was different only inasmuch as it moved from place to place in the Gulf but that that was not to make it different, it was so that the course could actually stay the same. It was changed so that they could still have a windward start, two beats and two runs which used to be classic AC.

AFAIK it has in modern times always been that way. Why would it want to change now?
If you are going to disagree with me, try not to come across and pompous jerk with your "Hey that would be cool (you Idiot).." response attitude. I have no problem with your difference in opinion, just the way you came off in your response, to me at least, as somewhat of jerk.

In response to your these boats can't weave and bob statement, so you you can't have various types of starts comment, I saw Oracle do a 180 deg Turn in 3 boat length at 20+ kts. Seems pretty maneuverable to me.

Building on that, these boats do race downwind and upwind during the race, so why can't you have a suitable start line line set up for this? Were not talking a hoard of OD boats all racing for the line, it's two boats. I have been in several boat races with both types (up/down) starts with a lot more boats without issue.

Also, I am not talking about doing circle , criss-cross, or some other weird set-up course, on odd days, or whatever, I was suggesting you use standard normal sail boat race courses with slight mods, such as upwind start, down wind start, off-sets at the marks, etc.

Having races that are different courses in the series can minimize the strengths of each boat. Boats that do well upwind can take advantage of races with upwind starts or races with more upwind legs. Boats that sail better downwind, similarly on the more down wind leg courses.

As it was in AC34, all races were the same, 2 downwind legs and one upwind leg with a 2 short reaches. Had the there been a boat that was notably faster in the downwind legs, they would have an advantage during the series.

I am all for safety and the death of the sailor was tragic and sad. However, there are risks in everything we do, and just because these boats go faster, doesn't make them any less safe. Yes they go faster, but there are also sailed by the probably some of the best sailors in the world. There competence at the helm and control should minimize the risk compared to Beer Can Racer Joe Sailor.
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  #189  
Old 09-27-2013
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Re: AC 34 - What If?

As for mixing it up, this is taken from the Deed of Gift:

In case the parties cannot mutually agree upon the terms of a match, then three races shall be sailed, and the winner of two of such races shall be entitled to the Cup. All such races shall be on ocean courses, free from headlands, as follows: The first race, twenty nautical miles to windward and return; the second race an equilateral triangular race of thirty-nine nautical miles, the first side of which shall be a beat to windward; the third race (if necessary) twenty nautical miles to windward and return; and one week day shall intervene between the conclusion of one race and the starting of the next race.


It looks like the Auld boys were thinking of putting a bit of variety in the mix, just a bit.

But this part today's fans would never go for:

...and each of such races must be completed within seven hours.
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  #190  
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Re: AC 34 - What If?

I find myself conflicted on everything associated with this race.


The GOOD: I really enjoyed watching. Fast, foiling, exciting, and short. Great TV coverage with excellent graphics. What amazing machines and complex team work required to make them go, and some classy guys driving both boats.

The BAD: I missed he more tactical traditional AC with lots of slam dunks, tacking duels, sail changes, etc. Too few lead changes during a race. Too narrow a condition window for racing (wind speed, direction, fixed course) driven by the technology I think. IMHO the balance between crew work and technology in determining the outcome got driven a bit too far towards the technology, not that it doesn't take amazing crew work to keep these boats going and upright!

The UGLY: Being a US guy, I wanted the US to win, but am not a Larry fan, and our guys got caught cheating.


But thinking back, every AC I can remember had some controversy. It's the nature of the beast. And, I plead guilty, I tried to resist but once I started watching I didn't miss a single race.
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