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post #21 of 59 Old 01-07-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

The regs don't go far enough. They should also include a SB radio and personal EPIRB for all crew members with tracking equipment on the vessel and should apply to all off shore cruising passages.

Its scary to thing they could recover all rescue costs in the future by S&R
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post #22 of 59 Old 01-07-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

Piclark,

Do you know of a sutable PLB locator? I have been looking for years, but so far as I know there really isn't one out there designed for sailboats. Either they are $5,000+ and require hard mounting large antenna arrays or are handheld units that looks pretty cheap and unsutable for marine use.

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post #23 of 59 Old 01-07-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

"Its scary to thing they could recover all rescue costs in the future by S&R "
Not so scary. The State of New Hampshire has been doing this for several years now. If you go into a wilderness area you'll pass signs clearly stating the new policy, which translate into "If you're too stupid to be prepared for the wilderness and you call our SAR resources, you're going to pay for them. And that's our decision."
Basically...if you go hiking in June and some quirky blizzard dumps six feet of snow on you, they'll still rescue you for free. But if you wander into the woods in January with nothing but your cell phone and a windbreaker...You'll get the bill when you call for help.
And that has worked pretty well for them. If they think you were negligent about your own safety, you get billed. If you were reasonably prepared and ***t simply happened, no charge.

That could work perfectly well on the water, especially since there are some very clear safety and equipment standards and reasonably respected groups behind them.

We've actually already seen this, to some extent, since the Reagan(?) administration. Call the USCG and tell them you're out of gas, and they won't deliver fuel anymore, they'll tell you to call and pay a commercial service. (Unless there's immediate danger.)

There's nothing cruel or illogical about this. You have the freedom to go do as you please, and that doesn't obligate anyone else to bail you out of what you've done to yourself.
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post #24 of 59 Old 01-07-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Piclark,

Do you know of a sutable PLB locator? I have been looking for years, but so far as I know there really isn't one out there designed for sailboats. Either they are $5,000+ and require hard mounting large antenna arrays or are handheld units that looks pretty cheap and unsutable for marine use.
Not sure what you mean. PLB's are waterproof, but won't last > 24 hrs due to battery life (and are $250-300). Epirbs are dropping in price- just bought mine for around $650, and battery charge once activated is around 2 days. Both are ACR and arguably suitable for marine use.

Ray

Last edited by Irunbird; 01-07-2014 at 03:34 PM.
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post #25 of 59 Old 01-07-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

Right now it looks like adding an AIS SART is the most effective solution.

Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: AIS & DSC MoB devices, the standards revealed

Give each crew an AIS beacon instead of a PLB, and your existing AIS receiver will find them. Or, anyone else's.

Other solutions are apparently coming but this is here, now, and cost effective.
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post #26 of 59 Old 01-07-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Right now it looks like adding an AIS SART is the most effective solution.

Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub: AIS & DSC MoB devices, the standards revealed

Give each crew an AIS beacon instead of a PLB, and your existing AIS receiver will find them. Or, anyone else's.

Other solutions are apparently coming but this is here, now, and cost effective.
I agree. This is what I've been considering. Until they can get something all-in-one, it seems to me that the SafeLink with AIS and a handheld VHF is a better way to go than using a PLB with GPS. As to the battery life on either device, 24 hours seems adequate because if a rescuer can't get to the MOB within that time frame, the MOB's chances of survival are very low.
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post #27 of 59 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

A lot of discussion went into this at the last PHRF meeting. There were strong opinions on boths sides. PHRF is trying to make racing safer and inclusive, but there are people that want to race their larg dinghies in open water. Most do not want to pony up the cash to do it safely b/c "they only do one race on the bay per year". Well IMHO that makes no difference.

I also support the safety regs for offshore CAT I sailing. Remember, most of these rules are MINIMUM requirements to compete. If you're 200+ miles out, the chances of being picked up quickly go way down.

The SAS seminars are worth every single penny. Even the $125 one day class (8 hours). This is not a watered down version of the class. It's what is required by most races, not the 2 day cert. When I need to get a re-cert I'll opt for the 2 day, as I was really impressed with the one day course. I would not be happy if they tried to cram that amount of information into a 1/2 day. What did bother me is that a lot of people were pretty relaxed and didn't seem to be taking it very serious. I took 16 pages of notes and review them before each offshore race or delivery.
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post #28 of 59 Old 01-08-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

The nautilus gizmo (from one of the links on Panbo) strikes me as either great or frail, I'm not sure which. The size of all the other "cigarette packs" but including a VHF so there's two-way communication. I expect that's fleapower for short duration, but that could be plenty good enough, considering it is one small packet. Question being just how durable it is.

On the cost of equipment...That could be turned into a positive thing for clubs and sponsors. If a club is running weekly races, why not buy a dozen safety gizmos, of whatever kind, and then make them available to the racers? Maybe free to club or USSA members, $10 a shot to non-members, possibly required equipment so they become a benefit to members and a revenue source to the club for non-members. Price it out so that the cost of buying one, is the same as the cost of "renting" one from the club for all races, all season. And give members more incentive, i.e. sell off the used ones at a discount at the end of every season and rotate in new ones for the next.

Or just take out life insurance on all the racers, and leave the safety equipment entirely optional. (G)
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post #29 of 59 Old 01-09-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

I believe Stumble (Greg) was talking about a device to receive and locate transmissions from personal beacons. There are systems with crew overboard transmitters that can talk to an antenna and receiver on the boat, but these have been a bit expensive and not quite the same as the PLBs and EPIRBs that talk primarily to satellites/rescue organizations. If you throw in the abilities of devices such as the In Reach (does a bit more than Spots), you get quite a gamut of devices for which maybe someone knowledgeable could write a current review... it can be a bit hard to keep track of changes in this area.
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post #30 of 59 Old 01-09-2014
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Re: New Safety Rules?

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A handheld VHF radio shall be carried. For 2015 this VHF must have internal DSC/GPS capability to broadcast its location to the USCG which is similar to what cell phones do today with 911 calls. Most older handhelds don’t have this capability and will need to be replaced by 2015. A fixed mounted VHF with DSC cannot be substituted for the handheld.
I whole heartedly agree that a handheld VHF should be on any sailing vessel. It is as convenient as a RAM mic, costs about the same, and provides a level of redundancy. However, the requirement in 2015 that the handheld VHF need to have DSC is over the line...

If the rules REQUIRE DSC Handhelds, then it is likely that some people will start sharing them. Because the MMSI can (and should IMHO) identify the boat, as these radios are taken to other vessels, S&R personnel may end up looking for boats that are not in trouble. (Yes, I know that a handheld can be registered as a handheld.) A far bigger issue, from my perspective, is that many radios do not have a properly registered MMSI.

It would be far more reasonable to require a VHF with DSC AND A PROPERLY REGISTERED MMSI, in addition to a hand held VHF of at least 5 Watt transmitting power be aboard.


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Last edited by eherlihy; 01-10-2014 at 09:11 AM.
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