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post #21 of 43 Old 06-03-2014
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Re: Why do you race

I race to stay sharp when I'm not! I'm out on a variety of boats every week with people that I've just met. Every once in awhile someone will ask how high a boat will point or how fast it is on a reach. It's fun to power up a boat and show them what it can do if trimmed correctly.
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post #22 of 43 Old 06-03-2014
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Re: Why do you race

It kind of depends on the boat. The foot of our heavy one is 40 foot long, it weighs 150~200 pounds. It can be physically challenging with full crew of grown men.

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Grinding can be and generally is brutal, but it doesn't have to be. To take most of the physicality out of it, the helmsman and release person have to work in coordination with the tailer-grinder, and most of them don't. That's mostly because they haven't really analyzed the process. Even a weak person can tail an unloaded line. Tailing a line only requires hard grinding after the line has come under load. The trick to tailing a line without grinding the winch until you become arm-weary is to get the line in before it comes under load. That means that the tailer-grinder has a limited amount of time in which to bring in a given length of line. If the release person or the helmsman reduces the amount of time that the tailer-grinder has to get the job done, then he'll have to resort to the winch handle to get it in the rest of the way. A common way that the release person can reduce the time available to the tailer-grinder is to backwind the jib. The longer he holds the jib, the less time the tailer has to haul in all the sheet. (The wind will usually be enough to bring the jib across during a tack, but, if the jib hangs up, then have a crew member walk it across. Backwinding the jib is usually unnecessary, and it uses up the limited amount of time that the tailer has to get his line pulled in.) If the helmsman turns the boat too quickly, he will use up some of the tailer's precious time. If the helmsman oversteers the boat through the turn, he loads up the sail, and the only way the grinder can get it trimmed is with hard grinding. A skilled helmsman will execute the turn at a speed that will permit the tailer enough time to get the unloaded sheet in, and he will terminate the turn before the sail becomes heavily loaded.

Tailing and grinding doesn't have to be nearly so physical.
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post #23 of 43 Old 06-03-2014
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Re: Why do you race

Well I race because the first one back gets the best choice of the cold beer!
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post #24 of 43 Old 06-03-2014
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Re: Why do you race



some-days it is like this and



Some days not so much

1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

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If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
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post #25 of 43 Old 06-03-2014
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Re: Why do you race

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It kind of depends on the boat. The foot of our heavy one is 40 foot long, it weighs 150~200 pounds. It can be physically challenging with full crew of grown men.
Well, duh! What point are you trying to make by stating the obvious? A single weakling would probably have a hard time tacking an old J boat with a 150' mast. So what? That doesn't invalidate my point that a skilled, thinking helmsman and release person can make a tailer-grinder look like a pro, even though he lacks extraordinary physical strength. But, if you prefer an over-muscled brute to intelligence....

Re-read what I said in my earlier post. Do you get the point that it is much easier to tail an unloaded jibsheet than to tail and grind a loaded jibsheet?

Watch any video of the most skilled racing crews tacking a big boat. They tail the jibsheet when it is unloaded. The helmsman coordinates the turn so that the crew has enough time to tail in the jibsheet while it is still unloaded, and the helmsman doesn't turn the boat past closehauled, so that the grinder has to grind the jibsheet in under load. The helmsman stops the turn when the genoa is streaming aft, parallel to the gunwale, and he doesn't bear off and load up the genoa until the sheet has been fully tailed in. All the grinder has to do is to give it a couple of cranks to trim the sail for closehauled. Cooincidentally, that also happens to be just the right amount of fullness in the sail to permit the boat to accelerate back up to speed after the tack.
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post #26 of 43 Old 06-03-2014
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Re: Why do you race

That's some funny ****, can you straighten some of my winch handles the crew bent over? Have you ever tailed a 3/4" sheet over 80 foot as it's drug across a rig? Have you ever done an inside peel from a one to a three with 30 over the deck? It will tucker a crew, trust me. You, need strength, stamina and coordination regardless of how skilled every one aboard is.

So yes, strength requirements are boat dependent.

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Well, duh! What point are you trying to make by stating the obvious? A single weakling would probably have a hard time tacking an old J boat with a 150' mast. So what? That doesn't invalidate my point that a skilled, thinking helmsman and release person can make a tailer-grinder look like a pro, even though he lacks extraordinary physical strength. But, if you prefer an over-muscled brute to intelligence....

Re-read what I said in my earlier post. Do you get the point that it is much easier to tail an unloaded jibsheet than to tail and grind a loaded jibsheet?

Watch any video of the most skilled racing crews tacking a big boat. They tail the jibsheet when it is unloaded. The helmsman coordinates the turn so that the crew has enough time to tail in the jibsheet while it is still unloaded, and the helmsman doesn't turn the boat past closehauled, so that the grinder has to grind the jibsheet in under load. The helmsman stops the turn when the genoa is streaming aft, parallel to the gunwale, and he doesn't bear off and load up the genoa until the sheet has been fully tailed in. All the grinder has to do is to give it a couple of cranks to trim the sail for closehauled. Cooincidentally, that also happens to be just the right amount of fullness in the sail to permit the boat to accelerate back up to speed after the tack.
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post #27 of 43 Old 06-03-2014
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Re: Why do you race

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Originally Posted by Shockwave View Post
That's some funny ****, can you straighten some of my winch handles the crew bent over? Have you ever tailed a 3/4" sheet over 80 foot as it's drug across a rig? Have you ever done an inside peel from a one to a three with 30 over the deck? It will tucker a crew, trust me. You, need strength, stamina and coordination regardless of how skilled every one aboard is.

So yes, strength requirements are boat dependent.
I don't know why you are persisting in arguing with me when I have agreed with you, but I'm checking out of this argument.
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post #28 of 43 Old 06-04-2014
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Re: Why do you race

I race because...

...it's more fun than cruising(*) on Port Phillip.


* = Around here "Cruising" usually means rushing headlong for hours along a shallow lee-shore from one sheltered breakwater to another whilst watching the next storm heading straight for you and knowing you have no place to go. "Racing" means enduring only an hour or two of the same crappy weather before heading back to the bar and a warm shower.

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"Honestly, I don't know why seamen persist in getting wrecked in some of the outlandish places they do, when they can do it in a nice place like Fiji." -- John Caldwell, "Desperate Voyage"

Last edited by Classic30; 06-04-2014 at 01:34 AM.
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post #29 of 43 Old 06-04-2014
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Re: Why do you race

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Tailing and grinding doesn't have to be nearly so physical.
Well aware of all your points as they are fairly basic to racing and sailing. The point I had made is short tacking can be brutal thus very physical.
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post #30 of 43 Old 06-04-2014
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Re: Why do you race

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But, if you prefer an over-muscled brute to intelligence....
Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?

If the racing was not physical I got to wonder why all the top teams work out at the gym so much? Why are so many of the grinders beefy boys? Why most racers at the elite level are in a certain age group?

Last edited by ScottUK; 06-04-2014 at 02:08 AM.
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