Right of way at the finish? - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Racing
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 06-23-2006
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,700
Thanks: 69
Thanked 197 Times in 189 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Yeah, that's possible, can't say I'm totally up on the latest versions of the rules. It'd be good to know for sure, wouldn't it?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 06-26-2006
paulk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,533
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
paulk is on a distinguished road
Rules

It is difficult to imagine the scene described in the lead post. Which side did you have to leave the finish mark? If to Starboard, HE may have been entitled to room. His "heading you up" may have been him trying to get around the mark. If he had an overlap with you at the 2-boatlength circle and was the inside boat, you would have to give him room, even if he was on Port tack. If you had to leave the finish mark to Port, his "heading you up" makes no sense. If you are on starboard tack with the chute up, and a boat on port slides in front of you, and you then come up to him and pass him, how is he going to head you up? You're on starboard AND (if you're leaving the mark to Port) you're the inside boat. He's on port; it isn't a windward/leeward situation. He has no rights, and might as well start doing his penalty circles right then.

Rule 18.2 outlines the basic rule for overlapped boats rounding a mark. It says the outside boat has to give the inside boat room to get around the mark. If the inside boat also has right of way, the outside boat also has to keep clear. So... a lot depends here on which side you were supposed to leave the finish mark. If you were leaving it to starboard, you needed to give him enough room so he could get around it. If you were leaving it to port, he needed to not only give you room but also keep clear of you. Hope this helps.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 06-27-2006
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 66
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
noscreenname is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulk
It is difficult to imagine the scene described in the lead post. Which side did you have to leave the finish mark? If to Starboard, HE may have been entitled to room. His "heading you up" may have been him trying to get around the mark. If he had an overlap with you at the 2-boatlength circle and was the inside boat, you would have to give him room, even if he was on Port tack. If you had to leave the finish mark to Port, his "heading you up" makes no sense. If you are on starboard tack with the chute up, and a boat on port slides in front of you, and you then come up to him and pass him, how is he going to head you up? You're on starboard AND (if you're leaving the mark to Port) you're the inside boat. He's on port; it isn't a windward/leeward situation. He has no rights, and might as well start doing his penalty circles right then.

Rule 18.2 outlines the basic rule for overlapped boats rounding a mark. It says the outside boat has to give the inside boat room to get around the mark. If the inside boat also has right of way, the outside boat also has to keep clear. So... a lot depends here on which side you were supposed to leave the finish mark. If you were leaving it to starboard, you needed to give him enough room so he could get around it. If you were leaving it to port, he needed to not only give you room but also keep clear of you. Hope this helps.
Why is this difficult to imagine? I was almost, dead downwind to the pin end of the finish i:e inflatable to port R/C to starboard, on a starboard tack. The other boat had gone to the right of the course in search of wind and came back up to the line on a hot angle, on a port tack. He got in front of me and started to head toward the line, still at a slight angle to the the course.when I came down on him to get his wind he resumed his original course of heading toward the pin end,again at a hot angle i:e pole almost up against the head stay. since I wanted clear air I went as high as I could without Jibing and could have just snuck by him to windward. That's what lead to my original question because at that point I would have become the overtaking boat and to windward.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 06-27-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Pipier is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by noscreenname
when I came down on him to get his wind he resumed his original course of heading toward the pin end,again at a hot angle i:e pole almost up against the head stay.

At this point, IMHO, port/starboard rules still apply. If he forced you to alter course, he fouled you.

since I wanted clear air I went as high as I could without Jibing and could have just snuck by him to windward. That's what lead to my original question because at that point I would have become the overtaking boat and to windward.
A technical point here: Since you were not on the same tack, windward / leeward does not apply. In fact, if you were still on starboard, then he was windward of you, and you were windward from his perspective.

Also, I agree with paulk regarding rule 18.2. Rule 18, if it applies, supercedes port/starboard. Once you were "about to round or pass a mark you were required to leave on the same side" then you need to determine if you were overlapped or not. If so, he must give you (the inside boat) room to pass the mark and also keep clear of you (since you were starboard). If you were clear astern at two boatlengths, he does not have to give you room (18.2(c)).

By the way, I think we were in your race, although happily not the fouling port-tacker. I sail Cebu, a blue-hull Colgate 26.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 07-04-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
inkfinny is on a distinguished road
RRS That apply

The Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) that apply would be Rule 10 except that you are passing a mark so you need to look at rule 18, 18.1 and 18.2.

Rule 18 says you need to give a boat room to pass a mark if they have overlapped you inside the mark within two boat lengths of the mark. From your description this seems to apply.

Rule 18.1 tells you this rule does not apply for boats on opposite tacks when on a beat to windward or when one of you but not both must tack to round the mark.

From your description, you were not beating and neither of you had to tack to pass the mark, so the rule applies and you must give the other boat room to clear the mark.

Rule 18.2 Describes the basic keeping clear rule including the statement that if there is reasonable doubt that an overlap may exist, you have to presume it exists.

Question for you: If you had sailed a hotter angle out on the course, could you have forced the port tack boat to Jibe or go behind you?


Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 07-05-2006
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 66
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
noscreenname is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by inkfinny
The Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS) that apply would be Rule 10 except that you are passing a mark so you need to look at rule 18, 18.1 and 18.2.

Rule 18 says you need to give a boat room to pass a mark if they have overlapped you inside the mark within two boat lengths of the mark. From your description this seems to apply.

Rule 18.1 tells you this rule does not apply for boats on opposite tacks when on a beat to windward or when one of you but not both must tack to round the mark.

From your description, you were not beating and neither of you had to tack to pass the mark, so the rule applies and you must give the other boat room to clear the mark.

Rule 18.2 Describes the basic keeping clear rule including the statement that if there is reasonable doubt that an overlap may exist, you have to presume it exists.

Question for you: If you had sailed a hotter angle out on the course, could you have forced the port tack boat to Jibe or go behind you?


. I was on starboard.... He was on port....I was windward ....He was leeward...(full overlap) He had gone out into "no mans land" in search of air. Why would I follow only to be windward and on the same tack, in bad air?
He tried to run me off the course by heading up on port at the last moment. How does anything you've stated above apply? He had to give ME room to finish. Why is this such a grey area?

Last edited by noscreenname; 07-05-2006 at 10:41 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 07-12-2006
paulk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,533
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
paulk is on a distinguished road
Black & White

Quote:
Originally Posted by noscreenname
. I was on starboard.... He was on port....I was windward ....He was leeward...(full overlap) He had gone out into "no mans land" in search of air. Why would I follow only to be windward and on the same tack, in bad air?
He tried to run me off the course by heading up on port at the last moment. How does anything you've stated above apply? He had to give ME room to finish. Why is this such a grey area?

This is NOT a grey area. Based on your more detailed description you were not only on Starboard tack, but you were also Inside boat (if you were within 2 lengths of the mark). He was required to keep clear of YOU. What is "grey" about the incident is how you let him get away with it without calling him on it. "Starboard" or "Room" or then "Protest!" would have been three well-chosen words in this situation. If I recall correctly, only "Protest" is required by the rules to be hailed. Better luck next time!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Unexpected Podium Finish at Zwitserleven Round Texel 2006 Catamaran Race (The Beachcats) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-17-2006 10:15 PM
Campbell, Georgetown Finish a Banner Season (Washington Post) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-06-2006 11:15 PM
Vangaurd Improvements bivalve Gear & Maintenance 5 07-08-2001 01:37 PM
Varnishing navtron General Discussion (sailing related) 7 03-13-2001 04:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:34 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.