One Design Rigs & PHRF - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Racing
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-06-2006
2ndimpression's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
2ndimpression is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to 2ndimpression
Post One Design Rigs & PHRF

We have a disagreement in our racing fleet with one member who owns a ODR boat that comes out of the factory with a 100% jib but wants his base handicap to be with a 150% jib not a 100% jib.

Should the base handicap be used with a 100% jib or a 150% jib on a ODR?

In my view it does not make sense to use a 150% because when they figured out the base PHRF rating they would of taken this into account and rated the boat accodingly.

I would like to get some opinions with reasons before I make a final decision on the matter.

Thanks~
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 07-06-2006
CharlieCobra's Avatar
On the hard
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bellingham, WA.
Posts: 3,503
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
CharlieCobra has a spectacular aura about CharlieCobra has a spectacular aura about
If it comes rigged with a 100% jib, it should be rated with that OEM equipment. When ya take a sailboat and turbo it you lose your PHRF handicap right? It's the same with racing cars. They're classed based on equipment levels.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 07-08-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
dsherburn is on a distinguished road
PHRF Handicap

We race a Tartan Ten on Lake Michigan. The T10 rates 126 with the class (100%) jib. If I want to race with a Genoa my rating goes to 123.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 07-11-2006
mikehoyt's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 684
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 15
mikehoyt is on a distinguished road
I believe in Nova Scotia we rate true one design boats such as Etchells, Solings, etc ... with the one design inventory being the base rating. Then we adjust from there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 07-12-2006
paulk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,555
Thanks: 4
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 15
paulk is on a distinguished road
What if...

Perhaps you could suggest to your fellow skipper that you plan to add 5 feet to your mast (a new carbon-fiber one, of course) and use a masthead spinnaker in light air. But since it's the same hull, boom and spinnaker pole,you want to keep the same rating you currently have. Maybe then he'll see what he's actually trying to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 07-12-2006
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
The other approach is to ask if he's really that bad a sailor that he needs to have an additional handicap rating because his sailing skills are so pathetic.

That's essentially what he is asking for. If he wants to use a 150% genoa in place of a 100% jib, he takes the PHRF rating hit... that's why it is a system of handicapping based on performance.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 08-19-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
danzee is on a distinguished road
Depends

The boat has to be in the ODR configuration that the rating was designed for. Many ODRs have to do only with pole lengths, some with headsail and other equipment. The local handicapper(s) can tell which factors went into the ODR for his model. My guess is that his boat is ODR with the small jib, and with any larger headsail it's a different rating. What is the boat model?
Z
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 08-19-2006
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,495
Thanks: 7
Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
I thought every PHRF region had some one designated as a handicapper, and that person would answer questions like this. Are there PHRF certificates kicking around, or are you trying to self-apply PHRF without paying the regional organization?

If yes, then I guess you can make up your own answer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 08-20-2006
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
lindyjim is on a distinguished road
Odr & Phrf

I've been a handicapper/measurer for PHRF since the start in early 80's, also the chief handicapper and also was Chief International Measurer for MORC. The way it should be & the way it is done sometimes get confused between PHRF stations or clubs and also because of the years that go by and having people with little history moving into handicapping positions. Here is what I know has been done.
A class of boat that does not have the standard PHRF rig is usually given a ODR rating. Examples are J-22 where SPL does not =J, or U-20 where jib is not 150% or 155% (depending on PHRF club), or Hobie 33 where the Spinnaker halyard is above the "I". This is done rather than giving the boat a rating and then calculating rig penalties/credits etc. My guidelines are: if a boat would qualify to race in it's national championship then it qualifies for the ODR rating.
Now here we have a boat that would not be allowed to race OD. What rating do we give it? Personally, in this situation I prefer to see a new classification assigned that has no connection to the ODR. This way the handicappers are not forced to change the ODR to change the non-ODR. The boats are treated separately and (supposedly) rated on their individual performances. Another way, as suggested, is to assign a penalty for an oversized jib. But what if an owner goes to a 155% jib and the the ODR has a 130% jib? Years ago in the MORC rule we plugged in a sliding scale credit from 100% to 170%, but in PHRF we usually only move ratings 3-sec/mi, so handicappers are limited. To protect the ODR and prevent all of them from being forced to by bigger sails to compete in PHRF, make sure the penalty is enough to only be worth it a small amount of time (i.e. really light air). This may not be perfecly fair, but it keeps costs down. Good sailing, Jim
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cutter Rigs Vs. Sloop Rigs LarryBrink General Discussion (sailing related) 22 04-16-2001 05:48 PM
phrf rating knotmuch86 Racing 1 02-20-2001 12:25 PM
PHRF? Waterline Boat Review and Purchase Forum 5 01-19-2001 01:02 PM
buying boat for PHRF racing lefty Racing 12 01-06-2001 05:49 AM
PHRF racing boat, what to buy lefty Boat Review and Purchase Forum 1 10-16-2000 04:07 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:26 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.