PHRF—What is considered a fast boat?

[sailingdog]

I don't race and what I know about racing sailboats fits on the head of a pin and the angels haven't noticed it yet.

A friend of mine just got their boat rated for PHRF racing. Apparently, the boat, which is the same one I have but with laminate not Dacron sails, has been given a provisional rating of 90. Is that considered fast? And if it is, what other boats are in that range???

[Faster]

If you're talking about your tri, I'd say a PHRF of 90 is a gift rating for such a boat. Examples:

Carrera 290 102
Dash 34 96
Farr 38 84
Frers 33 102
Henderson 30 87
J105 90

(these numbers from light air So Cal)

Unless you were doing nothing but beating in moderate breezes I'd expect your tri to sail circles around such boats over a typical RTB course.

In the PNW multis are rated, perhaps a bit harshly generally, but at much lower numbers.

As reference, a C&C 29 (older) rates around 190, an SC 50 around 25 or so with many larger newer sleds in the negative numbers. A C&C 37 also rates around 90. These numbers do vary regionally so others will differ.

[sailingfool]

You can peruse the NE ratings here PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps

[sailingdog]

Not my tri, but the same model I have, with laminate sails.

Interesting to see what other boats are in that range.

[GeorgeB]

The old saying goes: “Its not how low your rating number is. It’s how fast you sail against it”. I’m by no means an expert, but I have been to the PRHF committee a couple of times (C34 National Measurer). PHRF numbers are based on a formula calculated using basic dimensional data of the boat in question (I have it around here somewhere on excel, but I’m too lazy to look for it now). PHRF does not make adjustments for quality of equipment (carbon v. 20 year old Dacron) or condition of the boat (burnished bottom v. a “beard”). The formula breaks down when comparing multi’s to mono hulls and here in San Francisco, the multi’s race in their own divisions (heck, they even have their own racing association!). Generally, for the “cruiser-racer” production boat, the longer the water line (and subsequent increase in the sail plan) the lower the number. For example, out here the C34 rates144 and the slightly larger C36 is a 140. For comparison, a Areodyne 38 I used to crew on rated a 39 (but she was also a couple thousand pounds lighter than my Catalina), the Santa Cruz 50’s are -6, the Farr 40’s +2 and Westsail 32s are 225.

Hey, I found the formula!
R' = 610-8.36*(SA/Disp^.333)+0.0000511*(SA^2)-55*(P/(J+E)) -30.8*(LWL^.5)-602*(DR^2/SA)

[sailingdog]

Very true George.. Last summer we ran down quite a few boats larger that us without much trouble. The only boat that caught us last summer was a Corsair F31, that is rigged for racing.

[Giulietta]

I went on the American PHRF page (looked for a similar IRC rating and checked what that gives in PHRF...the PHRF rating on my boat would be around -3 !!!

[sailingdog]

Originally Posted by Giulietta

I went on the American PHRF page (looked for a similar IRC rating and checked what that gives in PHRF...the PHRF rating on my boat would be around -3 !!!

That would be with a boom, right??? Right now it's probably about a 50.

[SailorMitch]

Originally Posted by Giulietta

I went on the American PHRF page (looked for a similar IRC rating and checked what that gives in PHRF...the PHRF rating on my boat would be around -3 !!!

Giu -- You've stolen my answer. I was going to say that any boat with a minus sign in front of their PHRF rating is a fast boat! (And yes, a boom might be helpful.)

[CharlieCobra]

I was looking at an old plastic fantastic (Mac65T "Joss") that rated a -45 but somebody more serious than I apparently beat me to her. Can ya imagine hitting 25+ downwind in a blow with a 65 footer?