Mast Abeam?

[Hartley18]

I suspect I'm going to have to fork out for a copy of the AYF "Racing Rules of Sailing", but in the meantime..

First off, I haven't competitively raced in 10 years(!) - and neither have most of the rest of the Hartley 18-21 fleet down here. In the middle of the Richard Hartley Memorial Race yesterday, whilst broad reaching on starboard in 15kts of breeze and heading for the bottom mark, we overtook one of the slower competition to windward.

He tried pushing us up to windward (as you do) until we were reaching and crept past with him tagging along just under our lee. I called "mast abeam" when we were almost clear, but about 10 seconds later he rounded up suddenly and hit us in the gunwale about 2' from the stern - no major damage done (Hartley's are tough boats), just scared the s&%* out of us. After a few seconds of expletive exchange he claimed he accidentally let go of the tiller!!

We beat them in the end so it didin't really matter, but when I quizzed the guy back at the club he claimed that the "mast abeam" rule had been dropped years ago, so as windward boat we were in the wrong.

1. Does anyone know if this is true??

2. If it is, how are you supposed to stop someone pushing you up to windward until you're so far off the race course you might as well pack up and go home?

Any thoughts from the experts?

[paulk]

"Mast abeam" no longer exists. We call it out as a joke as we continue to avoid the leeward boat and they continue to head us up. The newbies don't know what we're talking about. The current rules are available on the ISAF website. The best way to stop someone luffing you up is to pass them, especially far enough to windward of them so they don't head you up.

On the issue of him hitting you...
The leeward boat has to give you room and opportunity to keep clear in a seamanlike manner. If he calls to head you up when his bow is in a position to be hit by your stern (as you try to head up to avoid him, your stern is going to swing towards him because boats pivot roughly around their centers of lateral area) he has not provided you the room your need to keep clear, and has broken a rule. If he hits you while you are keeping clear, he has also broken a rule. (Letting go of the tiller is not a seamanlike maneuver, either.) Sounds like he should have taken you up sooner and/or cut you off entirely, and this wouldn't have happened.

[nolatom]

It's true. "Mast Abeam" is no longer mentioned in the Racing Rules. Rule 11 says W must keep clear of L.

But rule 16 says L must allow W reasonal room and opportunity to stay clear, really sharp luffs, where L is trying to hit W, are out.

And rule 17.1 says that if L established her overlap on W from astern, she must not sail above her proper course.

So, to answer your second question: The way to keep L from luffing you to Spain is to not overtake him from windward so close to him that he's tempted to try it.

And in practical terms, if he keeps taking you up, unless he's a much faster boat (in which case how did you overtake him?), you're eventually going to get on his wind and get clear ahead, because you're on the inside of the circle he's trying to turn, and have to cover less distance than he does to make the same turn he does. But this takes time, so please refer to the paragraph above..

[Faster]

The old "mast abeam" has been out of the rule book for some time.

If you attempt to pass a boat to weather within two boat lengths lateral distance, the leeward boat has the right to "luff you to the moon" if they choose to.

The logic, as I understand it is: you have put yourself into a give-way situation, presumable intentionally and you should expect your 'victim' to defend vigorously.

Should you instead establish an overlap to leeward, then you give your self "luffing rights" such as they are, but only up to your "proper course".

I too have not raced seriously for some time, but this comes from my son, who races weekly.


EDIT - Oops - three overlapped posts... same message.

[nolatom]

Uh, "great minds think alike"? ;-) At least we all agreed.

I remember a guy who, when in a great tangle of boats in a mark-rounding, would yell, "Safe navigation!" to newcomers nearby. Occasionally it worked..

[Hartley18]

Thanks guys - that clears it up nicely. I can't help but wonder what other rules have been deleted/altered in the last decade and how many sailing books out there need to be revised...

I'm supposed to be crewing for a friend in the (highly competitive) TS16 Championships in a few weeks... If it happens again, I might just call "mast abeam" on someone just to see what happens - you never know!

A favourite trick of mine that used to work against rookies was to call "Starboard!" when you're on port tack. The opposition either:
(a) Gets completely muddled as to what tack they're on and lets you through.
(b) Thinks you're a rookie and might be dangerous and lets you through, or
(c) Is thinking clearly and yells at you - in which case, tack!!

..Can't lose really.

[jarcher]

Originally Posted by Hartley18

A favourite trick of mine that used to work against rookies was to call "Starboard!" when you're on port tack. The opposition either:
(a) Gets completely muddled as to what tack they're on and lets you through.
(b) Thinks you're a rookie and might be dangerous and lets you through, or
(c) Is thinking clearly and yells at you - in which case, tack!!

..Can't lose really.

I know this thread is about a year old, but, you missed one of the possible outcomes of yelling starboard while on port... Usually the other skipper gets about half way through their tack, realizes he has been duped, tried to stop the tack, and sits there luffing... At least that is what happens in dinghy racing, where tacking happens one heck of a lot quicker...

[sailingfool]

Originally Posted by Hartley18

T...

A favourite trick of mine that used to work against rookies was to call "Starboard!" when you're on port tack. The opposition either:
(a) Gets completely muddled as to what tack they're on and lets you through.
(b) Thinks you're a rookie and might be dangerous and lets you through, or
(c) Is thinking clearly and yells at you - in which case, tack!!...

A practice like that would clearly violate Rule 2 of the Fundamental Rules, Fair Sailing. It would seem very much the wrong kind of example to set for other racers, especially for newbies...right of way rules aren't something to fool around with...

[jarcher]

Originally Posted by sailingfool

A practice like that would clearly violate Rule 2 of the Fundamental Rules, Fair Sailing. It would seem very much the wrong kind of example to set for other racers, especially for newbies...right of way rules aren't something to fool around with...

Yeah, but kids do the darndest things... This was a common practice when I was a teenager... And what the heck, 420s bounce!

[CBinRI]

Originally Posted by sailingfool

A practice like that would clearly violate Rule 2 of the Fundamental Rules, Fair Sailing. It would seem very much the wrong kind of example to set for other racers, especially for newbies...right of way rules aren't something to fool around with...

Ditto.