Cunningham Cringle on the Leech?

[downeast450]

The main on my Islander-28 has a Cunningham cringle and two reef cringles above it on the luff. Each reef cringle on the luff has its corresponding reef cringle on the leech. The outhaul in inside the boom and the Clew is attached to that. I also have an "additional reef cringle" on the Leech that corresponds to the Cunningham cringle. I do not see that configuration on other sails. Is it unusual? Does having this extra "Clew" at the same height as the Cunningham add falttening potential that supplements the Cunningham's effect? I haven't used it but will try a couple wraps of webbing that I can tighten over the Clew. I could use the first reef line control hardware to tension this extra cringle.

Does anyone have a main like this and how do you use it?

George

[NCountry]

Mine isn't like that but wanted to give ya an additional tip. On my Islander 30 I've added a reefing hook to the reefing line at the leech. That way, even though I have to go on deck to do it. I can use the same line for all the reefing points. It just takes a second to clip it on at the leech cringles and allows me to use one line for all the reefing points on the leech. With this set up you could use the additional leech cringle you have as an extra reefing point. (If I understand your description of it)...Just wanted to throw that out as food for thought....

[tommays]

Way back when its was common and called a flattening reef i never found it of much use .

If i needed to reef the flattening reef was not enough to have any real effect

My current sails have one BIG reef which is all i need for local sailing My orginal 1981 J24 sails had two reefs in the main and One reef in the 100% jib

[RichH]

Yup, Tommy has it nailed ... flattening reef.

Usage will allow the main to be sailed 'full-up' in slightly higher windstrenghts but are below that which one would normally put in the 'first' reef. Its flattens the lower bottom panel sections of the mainsail without appreciable reduction of sail area.

The flattening reef was also an exceptionally good way to flatten the sail to prevent the invisible 'separation stalls' that easily occur when sailing in 'very light winds' - especially when beating.

Loose footed mainsails have obsoleted the need for flattening reefs ... but are still 'useful' in shelf-footed and (foot) bolt-roped mainsails

[AdamLein]

My main has a cunningham and flattening reef. It also has a shelf-foot like Rich mentions. Basically it's extra baggy at the foot to take a fuller shape, instead of being pulled straight taut along the boom (hence why loose-footed mains don't require such things). I put on the cunningham and flattening reef before the first reef; it's usually in a situation where I haven't fully trimmed the halyard and there's enough slack to harden the cunningham and flattening reef without going through the process of reefing. It removes the "shelf" and the main essentially becomes loose-footed.

I have not played with the flattening reef in light airs but Rich's suggestion sounds plausible... I'll have to try it out.

[RichH]

Originally Posted by AdamLein

I have not played with the flattening reef in light airs but Rich's suggestion sounds plausible... I'll have to try it out.

Put a 'row' of small tell-tales along the bottom panels of the mainsail at about 3-4ft. above the boom and spaced about 2-3ft. apart near the 'mid-cord' of the sail.... When you get a 'separation stall' the aft leeward side tell-tale from this set 'drops' and begins to 'hang'. You set the amount of draft (via outhaul or flatening reef) while watching these telltales while watching your speedo ..... and so that ALL the tell-tales including the 'draft row' on the leeward side are 'quietly streaming back'.

I use the 'mylar tape' from the oldfashioned 'mini/micro' cassettes for tell-tales when sailing in very light air.

The best (and original) work ever written with regard to the aerodynamic considerations of 'tell-tales' is found on ArvelGentry.com ---->'magazine articles' ---> (a serialized set of articles):
Checking Trim on the Wind, November 1973
Achieving Proper Balance, December 1973
Sailing to Windward, January 1974
Are You at Optimum Trim?, March 1974

[downeast450]

Thank you friends. Your comments have all been helpful. I do not know the age of my sails. I did think the foot looked a bit baggy and was using that to help judge the condition of a sail that looks like it got little use otherwise. The out haul did not do a very good job of flattening. It makes sense that this may not be an indication of the sail's condition but part of its design given that it has a flattening cringle. I am enjoying the responsiveness of this boat. Small tweaks show up immediately and I am anxious to add using the flattening reef to learn a little more about the boat's performance. Thank you Mr. Perry for a fun boat.

George

[sailingfool]

Originally Posted by NCountry

... On my Islander 30 I've added a reefing hook to the reefing line at the leech. That way, even though I have to go on deck to do it. I can use the same line for all the reefing points. ....

It is hard to see how a setup like this can be satisfactory.

In conditions where you want to reef, how do you get the hook on tot he leech cringle? How do you switch the hook from the first reef which is set in, to the second? It would seem like a good chance to get a flailing boom in the teeth, or to fall overboard...

Also, the reefing line needs to pull the reef clew both aft AND down to the boom, I don't think you could put enough pressure on a line trimming only to the end of the boom (not around the boom), to bring the reef clew to the boom, the end result being a fat reef.

[Sailormon6]

Originally Posted by sailingfool

It is hard to see how a setup like this can be satisfactory.

In conditions where you want to reef, how do you get the hook on tot he leech cringle? How do you switch the hook from the first reef which is set in, to the second? It would seem like a good chance to get a flailing boom in the teeth, or to fall overboard...

Also, the reefing line needs to pull the reef clew both aft AND down to the boom, I don't think you could put enough pressure on a line trimming only to the end of the boom (not around the boom), to bring the reef clew to the boom, the end result being a fat reef.

I agree. I thought it was a good idea until I actually tried it while beating to windward in big winds and choppy seas. What s'fool describes is exactly what I also experienced. It sounds logical, but it just doesn't work in the real world.

[RichH]

Originally Posted by sailingfool

It is hard to see how a setup like this can be satisfactory.

Two ways to do it and make it work:
1. l-o-n-g reefing hook with a bullet block attached to the eye of the hook ... removes the friction.

2. Goļot 'cringle block' ... a 'bolt-on' block that fits *****IN***** the reef cringle.
http://www.goiot.com/pdf/p48a.pdf
These are soooooo 'slippery' that you can covert from 2-line reefing systems to single line.