America's Cup Multihull Battle Set For February 2010 - Page 10 - SailNet Community

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  #91  
Old 02-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Down, do you read French

I am just kidding, but you will be glad to know that a French sailor has written, (on a French blog about the AC) exactly the same thing you have said, almost word by word, including the evaluation of the boat performance through a computer program.
I agree with both.
This AC was not about sailing (Sport) but a boat design competition, and a very expensive one.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,

I should be able to read French, after all the time I spent studying how, but no, I don't. I guess I was just watching the same "event" he was. I need a French immersion experience. Perhaps a year sailing on the Med.

I honestly don't think it is far fetched at all to see these wind powered platforms as remote controlled in the future. They are getting very close. Having some meat aboard for ballast is becoming a "throwback". How long will it be before the first unmanned sailboat crosses the Atlantic or sails around the world?

I enjoyed watching. I enjoy anticipating what their design advances portend for our collective sailing futures. It would be a remarkable experience to be flying 10 feet above 3 foot waves at 30 knots, moving faster than the wind. It would be more than I want to consider to be aboard when a bracing strut failed and the "boat" came apart, especially if it were me, with my family, out for a sail on a breezy summer afternoon.

One of my favorite boats is our 15 foot Marshall catboat. Its big sail and barn door rudder make it possible to feel the boat "hunt" for the sweet spot when beating into 12 knots of breeze. It can get a little wet, depending on the fetch, but the boat finds the threads of the puffs and responds continuously to their shifts. I can feel it sailing! It is amazing and wonderful. It is why I go out and play in the wind. I used to enjoy listening to the radio before TV, too. I am so lucky! ha!

That is not to say I don't enjoy the information and adjustments we have on our Islander. Knowing the wind speed and the apparent wind are very helpful. I like having a chart plotter, depth sounder, VHF, radar and soon AIS. The coastal weather information my XM radio delivers is a comfort, too.

The advance I observed during this AC that I see myself taking advantage of is soft standing rigging. I had already made that jump in my planning but watching the rigging on these monsters ended any doubts. "Softie" has taken on a whole new meaning for me.

Your posts on the AC have been enjoyable, Thanks.

Down
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  #92  
Old 02-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Paulo - I'm totally with you on the Vendee. The Vendee and the VOR are, in my opinion, the future of the sport (not the AC). They are worlds more exciting than any kind of match racing could ever be. And I think they have the kind of excitement and appeal that the world craves.

If these 2 races are marketed correctly - they stand to grow tremendously.

A cumulative global television audience of 2 billion can't be wrong.

.................................................. .....................................


You know, you may be onto something here. If the AC was staged in more open ocean where rougher seas were part of the element - you'd have something that would generate far more interest than what most perceive as quaint "sailboat races around bags in the bay".

They've GOT to give it some edge like the VOR and Vendee. This would also ensure seaworthiness and toughness was part of the boat design...as it well should be. Yet, unlike the VOR, it wouldn't take 9 months to see who the winner is.



well, it is not the AC, but both boats (Alinghy and BMW/Oracle) can compete on the RACE against the best and fastest boats. The RACE has very few rules:

You can go with any boat (unlimited).

You can go with any crew (unlimited).

You can not have any outside assistance (no food, no water, no fuel, nothing) .

You can not go out of the boat (no scales).

The first to arrive at the same point (after having circunavigated) is the winner.

Really simple. I Bet that you will like this one

Of course, they can compete on this one but they will not stand much time, without being reduced to small pieces

Sail-World.com : Bruno Peyron decides to relaunch The Race

Regards

Paulo
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  #93  
Old 02-19-2010
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PCP,

Here's the telling quote from that article:

Quote:
I have noticed that some major brands have been looking at the possibilities offered by the Volvo Ocean Race, which I can fully understand, but this does indicate that there is simply no alternative international race for multihulls. And just to conclude, others around me have become aware of this and share this feeling and my discussions with the leading G-class skippers have led me to move things forward in this direction.
Bottom line: The VOR is king. And multis break too easily.

Even so, I'd watch The Race...for the carnage if nothing else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
well, it is not the AC, but both boats (Alinghy and BMW/Oracle) can compete on the RACE against the best and fastest boats. The RACE has very few rules:

You can go with any boat (unlimited).

You can go with any crew (unlimited).

You can not have any outside assistance (no food, no water, no fuel, nothing) .

You can not go out of the boat (no scales).

The first to arrive at the same point (after having circunavigated) is the winner.

Really simple. I Bet that you will like this one

Of course, they can compete on this one but they will not stand much time, without being reduced to small pieces

Sail-World.com : Bruno Peyron decides to relaunch The Race

Regards

Paulo
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  #94  
Old 02-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
PCP,

Here's the telling quote from that article:

Bottom line: The VOR is king. And multis break too easily.

Even so, I'd watch The Race...for the carnage if nothing else.
It is not a multihull race it is an unlimited race. All boats can enter. If the multihulls break so easily, than certainly a monohull will win

As we speak a big multihull is trying a circumnavigation speed record. In the last years that record had been beaten several times (solo and with a crew). The multihulls didn't break, on other hand there is quite an alarming rate of problems with fast monohulls losing their bulbs. It seems they hit whales at high speed and cannot stand the huge shock.

Racing multihulls are inherently less safe than racing monohulls, but have made a long way in what regards seaworthiness and safety.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-19-2010 at 04:29 PM.
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  #95  
Old 02-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downeast450 View Post
Paulo,
...
Your posts on the AC have been enjoyable, Thanks.

Down
The pleasure is mine, with some excuses for my somewhat bad English….and by the way, sometimes that makes me a little bit dense. About your first post on this thread, it seems that I have taken some time to understand your irony. You are right, motorcycles and all .

Paulo
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  #96  
Old 02-19-2010
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Just wondering where you two get your ideas?

How is a racing multihull inherently less safe than a racing monohull. A properly built multihull is a pretty solid boat. When most of the racing multihulls have issues, it is usually with them capsizing...but at least the crew usually has something to wait for rescue on.

Lots of racing monohulls have had issues in the past few years... lost keels, broken masts, etc... When a racing monohull loses its keel, what happens... the boat turtles and usually sinks, and people die. I can think of a few racing monohulls that have caused fatalities in the recent past—Moquini; Cynthia Woods; Excalibur; Coyote; etc...

I'd point out that a majority, over two-thirds by my count, of the records at the WSSRC are held by multihulls—not monohulls. Many of these are sailing distances and through conditions that are as difficult or more so than most racing, and they're pushing the envelope just as much any racing boat to do so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Bottom line: The VOR is king. And multis break too easily.

Even so, I'd watch The Race...for the carnage if nothing else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It is not a multihull race it is an unlimited race. All boats can enter. If the multihulls break so easily, than certainly a monohull will win....
Racing multihulls are inherently less safe than racing monohulls, but have made a long way in what regards seaworthiness and safety.


Regards

Paulo
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  #97  
Old 02-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Just wondering where you two get your ideas?

How is a racing multihull inherently less safe than a racing monohull. ... When most of the racing multihulls have issues, it is usually with them capsizing...but at least the crew usually has something to wait for rescue on.
Well, you have answered yourself

We are not talking about cruising multihulls, but of dedicated big ocean racing boats. Boats with a a huge rig and big sails.

Modern top pure racing ocean monohulls, boats (like Open60s), don't sink when capsized, or at least stay afloat for several days, sometimes weeks (it has happened many times).

And when the boat goes turtle, if the keel stays in place, she will not stay capsized.

YouTube - Spirit of Canada Rollover Test

On the other hand an ORMA class trimaran ( Big Ocean racers) will only need wind to be capsized. No breaking waves, just wind. A lot of it (70K), but it has already happened, on a relatively recent Transat where almost half the multihull fleet capsized. I have read the interview with one of the skippers that said they had all sails down, but that the force of the wind on the mast was enough to capsize the boat.

These are not very usual circumstances but it is usual to have capsized multihulls on an Transat, not to mention a circumnavigation. The boats are racing, pushed to the limit...and sometimes they go over the limit...and that means a capsize. And if that capsize occurs at 30k, with a good probability you will not have only a capsize, but also a broken boat.
When a monohull goes over the limit...it broaches, or go to 90ş capsize and easily get back on their feet.

I get these ideas for following attentively, for many years, ocean racing at its top level (monohulls and multihulls). The simple observation of all those races show that the accidents (not only capsizes, but also broken boats) with multihulls are much more frequent, even if, as I have said, the number of those accidents on multihulls is decreasing.

Regards

Paulo
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  #98  
Old 02-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Just wondering where you two get your ideas?

How is a racing multihull inherently less safe than a racing monohull. A properly built multihull is a pretty solid boat.
Same place you get yours.

So were Alinghi and BMWO "properly" built? Fast, yes. Solid, hardly.
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  #99  
Old 02-20-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CalypsoP35 View Post
Everybody,....QUIT WHINNING!!!!! This was not a true AC regatta. It was a "Deed of Gift" challenge.
It most certainly was a true AC regatta... Go to the AC website and look at the history of the AC and you will see that the LV Cup format is a new race format to improve the competitiveness of the challenger.

The "Deed of Gift" is the original governing document of the America's Cup. To challenge under the rules of the Deed of Gift is an AC Regatta in the truest sense of the sport (no LV Cup series).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
From the third defense of the Cup in 1876 through the twentieth defense in 1967, there was always one challenger and one defender, although the NYYC ran a defender selection series to pick the yacht they would use in the match. Starting in 1970, interest in challenging was so high that the NYYC started allowing multiple challengers to run a selection regatta among themselves with the winner being substituted as Challenger and going on to the actual America's Cup match. From 1983 until 2007,Louis Vuitton sponsored the Louis Vuitton Cup as a prize for the winner of the challenger selection series.
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  #100  
Old 02-20-2010
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It most certainly was a true AC regatta... Go to the AC website and look at the history of the AC and you will see that the LV Cup format is a new race format to improve the competitiveness of the challenger.

Originally Posted by wikipedia
From the third defense of the Cup in 1876 through the twentieth defense in 1967, there was always one challenger and one defender, although the NYYC ran a defender selection series to pick the yacht they would use in the match. Starting in 1970, interest in challenging was so high that the NYYC started allowing multiple challengers to run a selection regatta among themselves with the winner being substituted as Challenger and going on to the actual America's Cup match. From 1983 until 2007,Louis Vuitton sponsored the Louis Vuitton Cup as a prize for the winner of the challenger selection series.
So, we are back to 67?
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