America's Cup Multihull Battle Set For February 2010 - Page 8 - SailNet Community

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  #71  
Old 02-16-2010
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Originally Posted by downeast450 View Post
Smack I am in! I have my course all picked out. all I need now is my new wing sail!, ummm....new head stay, new hot pipe and water lift muffler, new keel bolts, new radar, new battery switch, new propeller and a few little things. Will there be handicaps for special gear? How will wind speed and sea conditions factor in? Will there be minimums and maximums? I want a little longer course than your original post suggests, something more along the lines of 14 miles for each leg. We have a special handicap condition along this part of the Eastie's coast, lobster pot bouys. You can't sail a plotted course here with a fin keel. There are uncountable snags floating about. At least they are painted bright colors.

When you get the DOG sorted out I will have my legal team look at it.

Down
Jeez you're needy.

You need to get me a course for your area dude!
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 02-16-2010 at 12:53 PM.
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  #72  
Old 02-16-2010
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
... This is not "sailing" - this is a battle of intelligence and technology. And it is great! It's just not the AC....maybe...

..Unfortunately for the future of AC, I don't think the world is interested anymore in match racing. Period. Yes, it will be a fun spectacle to watch every once in a while - but it's time for something different. Taking the racing back to the old school style of AC will satisfy the purists - but it will not make the AC more successful unless the public really wants to follow it. I just don't see that happening.

So, the question is, was what we just witnessed the potential salvation of the AC if the AC allows itself to radically change with the times?
You do you say that the world is not interested in top class match racing?

The last previous edition of America’s Cup was a huge public success and that was pure match racing. This one was a complete disaster, in what regards public interest. I believe that the conclusion is that Public is interested in top class match racing and are not interested in "batles of inteligence and technology", even with very spectacular boats.

Regards

Paulo
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  #73  
Old 02-16-2010
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Originally Posted by downeast450 View Post
The next step for this "Science Fair", disguised as sailboat racing, is to leave the crews ashore! All the sailing adjustments to those boats are based on the information delivered to the crew by sensors which is translatable into algorithms. The "grinders" are history. With a little engineering on how to tack the head sail, if one is useful at all using the next iteration of the wing sail, there won't be any need to be on the vessel. I think Smack's idea of a huge regatta will have to become a virtual race, too!

Perhaps a program like John Letcher's, Multisurf, can evaluate the designs and award the winner based on their projected quality. It sure would be simpler to just send the winner an e-mail!

I want a sail that can do the camber fandago that that wing sail does.

Down
Down, do you read French

I am just kidding, but you will be glad to know that a French sailor has written, (on a French blog about the AC) exactly the same thing you have said, almost word by word, including the evaluation of the boat performance through a computer program.
I agree with both.
This AC was not about sailing (Sport) but a boat design competition, and a very expensive one.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-16-2010 at 07:24 PM.
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  #74  
Old 02-16-2010
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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
You do you say that the world is not interested in top class match racing?

The last previous edition of America’s Cup was a huge public success and that was pure match racing. This one was a complete disaster, in what regards public interest. I believe that the conclusion is that Public is interested in top class match racing and are not interested in "batles of inteligence and technology", even with very spectacular boats.

Regards

Paulo
You may be right Paulo. But my sense is that it's not the match racing itself that drew the crowds of the past - but the nationalistic nature of the race, which has greatly diminished with the current multi-national teams.

I think what killed this AC more than anything was the legal wrangling and hubris of EB - not the technology aspect of it. LarryE mentioned that the viewership of the actual races was, in his words, significant.

So, my honest take on the AC is that it has one of two options - take it back to the strict nation-vs-nation battle focusing on a "One-Design" approach to the boats (like Nascar/F1), or fully commit to making the AC a showcase for the best sailing technology in the world with no limits on design or budget.

Now, let's say that they went with the latter approach, AND they ensured that all entries and teams were nation-based (not private or syndicates)...would that draw more of an audience?

Olympics anyone?
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  #75  
Old 02-16-2010
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I agree, if turning it into F1 is the answer, then PHRF racing around the beer cans would already be NASCAR. It's not. We have to face up to the fact that this sport, at least as a spectator event, has limited appeal. Even a lot of avid sailors don't have much interest in watching. The population for spectators is, I believe, almost exclusively limited to those people who already sail.
Take a looK:

Vendée Globe

All that people....and they are not even looking at a race, just the awards distribution.

I believe Sailing has a much bigger audience in Europe and I believe in Australia and New Zealand.


When I talk about F1 I mean the best world professional match sailors on a regatta, with spectacular and technologicaly advanced boats. It would happen, sooner or later, it can be de AC, or another series.

If it is the AC, it will remain one of the top world sailing events, if not, it will probably lose importance, transforming itself on a kind of sailing curiosity.


Regards


Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-17-2010 at 03:07 PM.
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  #76  
Old 02-16-2010
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Paulo - I'm totally with you on the Vendee. The Vendee and the VOR are, in my opinion, the future of the sport (not the AC). They are worlds more exciting than any kind of match racing could ever be. And I think they have the kind of excitement and appeal that the world craves.

If these 2 races are marketed correctly - they stand to grow tremendously.

A cumulative global television audience of 2 billion can't be wrong.
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  #77  
Old 02-16-2010
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
....
So, my honest take on the AC is that it has one of two options - take it back to the strict nation-vs-nation battle focusing on a "One-Design" approach to the boats (like Nascar/F1), or fully commit to making the AC a showcase for the best sailing technology in the world with no limits on design or budget.

Now, let's say that they went with the latter approach, AND they ensured that all entries and teams were nation-based (not private or syndicates)...would that draw more of an audience?

Olympics anyone?
That’s not a sailing competition, that’s a boat design competition. There is not a shred of sport on it. The winner would be the country that put’s more money on it and buys the best technicians and scientists. It was what happened on this edition. The Oracle/BMW was a lot more expensive than Alinghy (50% more) and invested in a lot more resources (the development of the wing, for instance) .

Who is going to pay for that? Olympics...where the one that has more money wins?

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-17-2010 at 03:07 PM.
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Paulo - I'm totally with you on the Vendee. The Vendee and the VOR are, in my opinion, the future of the sport (not the AC). They are worlds more exciting than any kind of match racing could ever be. And I think they have the kind of excitement and appeal that the world craves.

If these 2 races are marketed correctly - they stand to grow tremendously.

A cumulative global television audience of 2 billion can't be wrong.

Do you know what those races have in common: The best professional ocean racers in each category (solo and crew) and spectacular boats, built under a rule that permits them to be competitive .
I disagree with you about match racing. It can be as spectacular as ocean racing and the recipe is the same: Spectacular boats built under a rule that make them competitive and the best professional match racers.
Take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w2lWy1nR-o&feature=related

Last edited by PCP; 02-17-2010 at 03:08 PM.
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  #79  
Old 02-17-2010
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Do you know what those races have in common: The best professional ocean racers in each category (solo and crew) and spectacular boats, built under a rule that permits them to be competitive .
I disagree with you about match racing. It can be as spectacular as ocean racing and the recipe is the same: Spectacular boats built under a rule that make them competitive and the best professional match racers.>>
Take a look:>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w2lWy1nR-o&feature=related>>
That video is definitely more exciting than 33 was. But, at least to me, it's not anywhere near as exciting as the Vendee or VOR racing.

Obviously I'm from the US - so my viewpoint is admittedly limited to that market (where NFL, NASCAR, and UFC rule). And I have a hunch that the AC may be one of those sports like cricket that enjoys a very large international audience - but is not that appealing to the broader US markets.

Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see what happens with AC34 now that it is coming back to the US. Who knows, maybe we'll start liking cricket.
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Obviously I'm from the US - so my viewpoint is admittedly limited to that market (where NFL, NASCAR, and UFC rule).
The difference is important. In the US the several car championships don't have an hierarchy. The best pilots are on several series. Europeans also have different series, but ALL the best pilots are in F1 and all the young pilots in all series dream to be on F1.

Old pilots from F1 when they are aging retire on other series, being competitive on those and some, like Fitipaldi or Mansell go to the US and they still remain winners on the American series, for many years.

The best American pilots sometimes go to F1, and, with the exception of Mario Andretti, they turn out to be just average, not winners.

F1 is more about drivers than cars (and of course, they deserve the best cars). The best in the world are there. That's one of the things I meant when I was talking about F1, as a model for America's Cup (the best professional sailors).

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see what happens with AC34 now that it is coming back to the US. .
I am not so sure about that. As you have said Americans are not interested in sailing or in the AC like the Europeans and if you don't have a large public you don't have a way of paying the event, unless a millionaire is willing to throw money away, and a lot of it.

The other aspect I was having F1 as a model for the AC is the sponsorship that is connected with payed publicity and the television rights. The F1 is a profitable business, it pays itself and gives a profit. For that you need a big audience.

That's the same with the AC and if they cannot find a large audience in the US that supports the event, than the probability is that the next AC will be in Europe, where that audience is located. I am not the one that is talking about it:

"While GGYC indicated it wants to hold the next America’s Cup in three years, the venue is up in the air, with Ellison mentioning Valencia; San Francisco and Newport, R.I., and Coutts pushing Cascais, Portugal.

“You need a lot of support from the venue,” Ellison said, adding that San Francisco has “a crowded waterfront, and we’d have to develop bases for a lot of teams.”
Bajurin and present GGYC commodore Marcus Young, who watched the races in Valencia, said that although San Francisco is a magnificent place to sail, they weren’t sure the city could match what was done at Valencia and Auckland, New Zealand, where rundown commercial fishing wharfs were transformed into sparkling America’s Cup harbors.

“Our waterfront has seen better days, and there would be a lot of regulatory hurdles” to overcome, Bajurin said, adding that the task was made more difficult because there probably will be only three years to get ready."


Regards

Paulo
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