America's Cup Multihull Battle Set For February 2010 - Page 9 - SailNet Community

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  #81  
Old 02-17-2010
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One of the things Americans have trouble with, myself included, is not knowing whether the show's on, or not.
I think if the President of the United States was giving a televised press conference that ran into the scheduled start time for a major sporting event, s/he better move over.
Paul
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  #82  
Old 02-17-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post

“You need a lot of support from the venue,” Ellison said, adding that San Francisco has “a crowded waterfront, and we’d have to develop bases for a lot of teams.”
Bajurin and present GGYC commodore Marcus Young, who watched the races in Valencia, said that although San Francisco is a magnificent place to sail, they weren’t sure the city could match what was done at Valencia and Auckland, New Zealand, where rundown commercial fishing wharfs were transformed into sparkling America’s Cup harbors.
The reasons it won't come to San Francisco are the following:

The venue is not big enough. The navigable water of SF Bay is not large enough to run the event.

The ocean off the coast of SF is lumpy and and winds are unpredictable. So holding the event outside the gate would be impractical. Winter is too rough; summer is light/variable with confused light swell.

The SF Bay Area is not going to pony up hundreds of millions to build fancy venue infrastructure that will only be used once every 3 years. The value of the developed land is too high; and we won't break new ground to build harbors and dredge because of the environmental restrictions on doing these things.

With all of this said; I don't think Ellison will send the AC match back to Valencia. It will be held somewhere in US waters; probably either San Diego where his syndicate is centered or in the LA basin. There is a huge advantage to having the "home field" and he won't want to give that up.
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  #83  
Old 02-17-2010
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Originally Posted by lporcano View Post
The thing that could make future AC coverage attractive to a wider audience in the US is horsepower, which in sailing comes in the form of wind. That is why the idea of Newport as the venue is not the most appealing to me. Newport is going to provide light fluky winds, which might make for a great tactical match, but will not be the type of race that pulls in new fans. The VOR coverage was edited to give you glimpses of the boats while they are flying on a reach in big seas and big wind. You can get the same thing in a short race in the right venue. Freemantle was like that, and could have caught on more if it was not for the time difference.
You know, you may be onto something here. If the AC was staged in more open ocean where rougher seas were part of the element - you'd have something that would generate far more interest than what most perceive as quaint "sailboat races around bags in the bay".

They've GOT to give it some edge like the VOR and Vendee. This would also ensure seaworthiness and toughness was part of the boat design...as it well should be. Yet, unlike the VOR, it wouldn't take 9 months to see who the winner is.

Somebody get me Larry Ellison on the phone.
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  #84  
Old 02-17-2010
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I still say that San Francisco should be the next venue for the Cup. If the criticism is “the winds are unpredictable” and the ocean is “lumpy”, then all the other venues mentioned here would be eliminated a long time ago. You guys might not be old enough to remember, but the big complaint about Newport was the generally light and inconsistent winds. Valencia certainly didn’t live up to the hype either. And please – San Diego/ LA? You guys have to wait a long time before a Santa Anna starts blowing!

12 Meter and America's Cup formula boats have successfully raced in the Bay before. Back when the Cup was in Perth, we had three syndicates working up in the Bay at the same time (Chicago’s Heart of America, Blackaller’s Saint Francis, and Canada1. Heck, all three of them raced together in the Oakland Estuary. ). I have seen both Larry and Ernesto’s match racing and then the Moet Cup on the Bay and the viewing is fantastic from all around. And You would not have to watch it on T.V. like in Valencia.

The City already owns Treasure Island and 12 meter boats have sailed out of there in the past. The closed down Alameda NAS could hold fifty syndicates and still have room left over. If the NAS basin was big enough for a couple of nuclear aircraft carriers and their escort ships, I’m sure they could find room for twenty boats. When Mari Chi V ran over the boat in Antigua, the only yacht center that could accommodate her repair was KKMI here in the Bay.

Paulo, the big screen TV in Valencia looks impressive until you realize that more than twice as many people watched last week’s Mavericks Surf Contest on the Jumbo Tron at AT&T Park, and by the way, was at $25 per pop!



"Lumpy" conditions outside the Golden Gate. 17 foot breakers inside the Bonita Channel (The safe way to go around the Potato Patch). Picture taken last Sunday.
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  #85  
Old 02-18-2010
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smack...

You know, you may be onto something here. If the AC was staged in more open ocean where rougher seas were part of the element - you'd have something that would generate far more interest than what most perceive as quaint "sailboat races around bags in the bay".

Hope they get a new referee (or whatever the guy's title was that called the race because of the 1.3m sea state)!!!

Paul
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  #86  
Old 02-18-2010
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No kidding AE. That was one of the main things that made this race a bit of a joke in terms of real sailing. Very fast boats, yes, but far too fragile.

I remember LE talking about the "rough conditions" that had them concerned with waves that were "well over a meter".

Larry, dude, that sounds like the Tin Can cat!

Harden The Boat Up!
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  #87  
Old 02-18-2010
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Caught some snippets of this race (such as it was) via YouTube.

People were right. There were some (briefly) interesting boats but even these highlights were about as riveting to watch as a piece of ice slowly melting in my driveway.

I thought that for a while, sailing had done a good job of making it interesting to watch the sport -- for a while on Speedvision, they'd show the 18ft skiffs in Australia, that was interesting -- but if this is what racing becomes, well, hit the snooze button for ever making it something that anyone other than the owners get invested in.

Sailing is definitely one of those sports where you kinda have to be there, as in on the boat, to be really interesting. It's especially slow moving to a viewer if there's no actual contest and no reference to what they are seeing on TV. The Indy 500 is about cars driving around in an oval, but it is interesting to viewers because there are many cars all together going around in an oval. One car going around in an oval just doesn't do it. Neither would two really, unless they were close together.

The Americas Cup might just be at the point where it's not *supposed* to be interesting other than to the people involved or die hard fans of those involved. I don't know that the sport of sailing can use the cup as an ad to the everyman to take up sailing as a hobby (new blood!) anyway.

I hope "big time" racing as a whole doesn't go this way because while it's really interesting that a wing can make sailboat haul ass, it doesn't really appeal to any sailboat lover in me. All I can do is hope there remain some races that really are interesting to watch and that someone will find a way to get them on TV.

Last edited by daydreamer92; 02-18-2010 at 04:04 PM. Reason: spelling is hard
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  #88  
Old 02-18-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
I still say that San Francisco should be the next venue for the Cup. ...

Paulo, the big screen TV in Valencia looks impressive until you realize that more than twice as many people watched last week’s Mavericks Surf Contest on the Jumbo Tron at AT&T Park, and by the way, was at $25 per pop!
Perhaps you have misunderstood me. That was precisely my point: No public interest on this America’s cup edition. The photos of Valencia’s headquarter that I have posted on this thread:

BMW Oracle Wins Race 1 - if you care !!!

were accompanied by the following comment:

“The first one is taken at 10.15, 15 minutes after the hour set for the beginning of the race. As you can see there is almost nobody in the place where the race is going to be transmitted live on a giant screen. The contrast with the last edition is amazing. From the several km of waterfront that were occupied by the last edition, remains only activity on a single building.
The next two photos show the ambiance while the race was on. It was a lovely day, full of sun and Valencia is a big city but even so the Public is a small fraction of the one that was there on the last edition...and the enthusiasm.... is not present.”


Regarding the place, I will quote Jim Rosar comment on this article (I agree with him):

“The America’s Cup competition may return to Rhode Island. According to the Projo, the possibility of the sailing tournament coming to the Rhode Island Sound became likelier after software billionaire Larry Ellison, the most recent Cup winner, mentioned Newport as a possible location for the competition in 2013. Newport has hosted the contest twelve times in the past, most recently in 1983, when Australia took home the big prize.”

Jim Rosar:
“Who Cares!!!! Last 33 races not carried anywhere , Live stream on ESPN360 only certain cable internet providers. not mine, Nothing in main stream news ,CNN did not care ,Bad Timing, at same time as Olympics.
Cup need a media lobbist. Might as well run Race in Siberia in Winter.”


News.WBRU | America’s Cup Coming Home to Rhode Island?

This is the real problem, not the place where it is going to happen. It better take place in a way and in a location that permits the sponsoring needed to make it a major world sports event.

Take a look at this article and at these figures:

"Billionaires Larry Ellison and Ernesto Bertarelli have turned an America’s Cup boom into bust.

A 30-month wrangle over rules canceled a 19-team qualifying event, scared off sponsors like Banco Santander SA, UBS AG and Nestle SA and shrank the organizing budget to 8 million euros ($11.1 million) from a record 230 million euros in 2007, organizers said.

The best-of-three regatta in Valencia, Spain, starts at 10:06 a.m. local time, or 4:06 a.m. in New York. The event begins the day after the Super Bowl, and just before the Winter Olympics in Vancouver. International interest has declined so much that organizers gave away the television rights, officials of Bertarelli’s Alinghi team said.
…….
The economic impact of the 159-year-old event, sailing’s oldest competition, is less than 10 percent of the $7 billion last time, according to Tom Cannon, a sports business professor at the U.K.’s Liverpool University. There are no infrastructure benefits and most of the about-$500 million spent will be on the two competing boats, Cannon said.
…….
Either way, it’s the first time there hasn’t been a qualifying contest since 1988, ostracizing challengers from countries including South Africa, Italy and New Zealand that competed last time. The 2007 event made a profit of 66 million euros shared between 12 teams. For this year, Geneva-based Alinghi ceded management of the commercial rights to Valencia’s city hall and regional government.

“The America’s Cup has lost the sense of national importance,” Cannon said. “From being one of the four or five biggest sports events, it’s become frankly parochial.”


America’s Cup Sinks as Bertarelli-Ellison Fight Sours Santander - Bloomberg.com

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 02-18-2010 at 05:06 PM.
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  #89  
Old 02-18-2010
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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
I still say that San Francisco should be the next venue for the Cup. If the criticism is “the winds are unpredictable” and the ocean is “lumpy”, then all the other venues mentioned here would be eliminated a long time ago. You guys might not be old enough to remember, but the big complaint about Newport was the generally light and inconsistent winds. Valencia certainly didn’t live up to the hype either. And please – San Diego/ LA? You guys have to wait a long time before a Santa Anna starts blowing!

12 Meter and America's Cup formula boats have successfully raced in the Bay before. Back when the Cup was in Perth, we had three syndicates working up in the Bay at the same time (Chicago’s Heart of America, Blackaller’s Saint Francis, and Canada1. Heck, all three of them raced together in the Oakland Estuary. ). I have seen both Larry and Ernesto’s match racing and then the Moet Cup on the Bay and the viewing is fantastic from all around. And You would not have to watch it on T.V. like in Valencia.

The City already owns Treasure Island and 12 meter boats have sailed out of there in the past. The closed down Alameda NAS could hold fifty syndicates and still have room left over. If the NAS basin was big enough for a couple of nuclear aircraft carriers and their escort ships, I’m sure they could find room for twenty boats. When Mari Chi V ran over the boat in Antigua, the only yacht center that could accommodate her repair was KKMI here in the Bay.

"Lumpy" conditions outside the Golden Gate. 17 foot breakers inside the Bonita Channel (The safe way to go around the Potato Patch). Picture taken last Sunday.
I don't discount any of this; it's a great place to sail (yes I own a boat and live here). But it's not an ideal place for an AC course; and I think this is where it could be eliminated from consideration. I don't know where they would find a stretch of water 20 miles by 10 miles with adequate depth for an upwind/downwind course on the bay; do you? What about current? Is Ellison prepared to put the AC at risk over correctly reading the tidelines? Do you think they would want to hold this race 10 miles offshore and the need to go across the SF bar with light racing hulls just to prepare for a race?

Clipper Cove would need to be dredged at the entrance to make it a useful venue. NAS Alameda would need refurb, but I agree it could be done (but who's gonna pay for it?). There are adequate botyard facilities here; but I don't think that would be the major issue. It seems that the AC guys prefer flat water and consistent light wind (hard to find). We don't have those conditions here most of the year.

Don't get me wrong; I would LOVE to see the AC come to SF. I would like to see AC boats compete in 30kts of wind! I just don't believe it will happen.
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  #90  
Old 02-18-2010
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Quit Whinning!!! It's not your money that was spent

Everybody,....QUIT WHINNING!!!!! This was not a true AC regatta. It was a "Deed of Gift" challenge. And I thought it was fascinating. I watched both races almost in their entirety on ESPN360. Am I glutton for punishment? YES. Do I want the next AC to be like this. NO. But that doesn't mean I didn't think it was pretty spetacular to see two $100 million boats going at it to see who had the fastest boat. My biggest complaint was the wind and wave limits. WIMPS! This was a once in a life time thing. You'll be telling your grand kids about this one everytime there is an AC regatta. It was fascinating in my eyes, and hopefully they will go back to the type of AC regatta's they held with the 12 meters.

Here's hoping it the AC goes back to Newport RI. It was an institution there for a couple decades. OK, living in southern NE I'm probably being a little selfish, but I do remember the '80 and '83 AC's and the town was crazy. It was always one of the lead stories on the sports casts (well after the Red Sox, but definitely in front of the Patriots who were a joke of a team back then). Someone made a comment about light and fickle winds. But while there some stretches like that. Generally the winds are pretty robust and consistent out of the SW.
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