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  #11  
Old 02-04-2010
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Originally Posted by mgmhead View Post
Smack-man, no offense... Like JR there's a need to get up to speed. I know, if I start 2NM from the starting line I should be up to speed by the time I get there. Game On!!!
I never take offense. I just scream in triumphant rage as my C27 blows by my "competitors" in a blur of cracked and stained gelcoat and baggy sails!
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 02-04-2010 at 09:20 PM.
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  #12  
Old 02-04-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
As for all the other PHRF stuff - I say we start off by keeping is stupid simple. Take it back to the old days and just make it a free-for-all.

Work with me here!
Smack,
I know you have not done much racing yet so I'll try to wipe the smirk off my face. The 'free-for-all' you are advocating would be more like GeorgeB's SF Bay 'any way around' race and basically unfair to older boats with high PHRF ratings. Another kind of free for all is 1 Class racing where all the boats are within the same class guidelines and everyone has to go around the marks in the same direction. At least in 1 Class racing everyone is sailing more or less the same boat and there are no 'corrected' times based on PHRF or other rating. Most casual to competitive races have multiple boat designs competing against each other and this is why they came up with the PHRF (performance handicap racing fleet) ratings.

Sure, you could chuck the PHRF ratings out the window as they are not as accurate as they sound but then only racing scows would win and be able to gloat over the others. The PHRF ratings at least level the playing field a bit so I would not dismiss them so casually if you want anyone to take you seriously.

Another point. Since PHRF ratings are used so extensively many clubs that hold races set up several divisions within the racing fleet. This is another nod to 'fair play' so that boats that fly spinnakers are not competing with those that do not and racing scows are not competing with 'old shoes' like my boat. For example, the racing fleet may be divided into 'spinnaker' & 'non-spinnaker' divisions and each of those further sub-divided into divisions of PHRF '< 150' & '>151' (yes, my boat is in the slowest division of all with a PHRF of 240!). This simplistic example would give you 4 separate divisions of the fleet who only compete within their own division. Many of the bigger races even have separate divisions for multihulls, professionals, over 50' LWL, under 50' LWL ... etc, etc.

You could chuck the PHRF ratings out of your idea but if you did then Larry Ellison with his massive Catamaran would probably win all the time (as if he would enter the 'Global Smacktanic Regatta') unless the race course was set to be very short, say, 200 yards a leg.

So, you need an inland lakes/rivers division(s) and open water division(s) based on all the other divisions I 'ave already mentioned, mate, before anyone will really take your idea too seriously - unless they 'appen t'ave a Melges racing scow.

I better stop there before I regret or am sorry for anything else I type (say).
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2010
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Look, I think smack is onto something here- sort of the nautical equivalent of sportsman class drag racing, or Solo racing. Run what you brung, when you brung it, and compare times. I don't see why a handicap system could not be set up that accounts for wind conditions and PHRF, and if you want to get waaaaaayyyyy too organized, a series of classes- lightweight, heavyweight, old shoe, etc.

Or just set your waypoints, go out there and lap the bouys, and get your time in; we'll sort out the whiners from the winners later. It ain't like it's gonna cost anybody anything.
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Old 02-04-2010
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Caleb - I've done absolutely no racing. So feel free to smirk. It's not a problem at all as long as we're making progress.

The Fiasco race is actually part of what gave me the idea. And everybody and their sailingdog is ALWAYS complaining about PHRF. So, I figured this was just more the Ultimate Global Beer Can Challenge kind of thing.

Of course, if the scows or Open 60's start winning everything in sight - then us 4KSBers figure out a way to take 'em down.

I figure it just needs to be stupid simple and fun.
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Old 02-04-2010
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okay, so it looks like the score is currently "gung-ho doers" - 2, and "it'll never work, it won't be fair, forget it"- 4.

Come on folks, vote early, and vote often.
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Old 02-04-2010
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GHDs ROCK!
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  #17  
Old 02-04-2010
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Alright, then I can sail my windsurfer or my Lightning on the same course.
I wuz' just pointin' out to the ole' Smacker that if he wants to 'market' 'iz idea to the masses that most blokes are quite comfy with the PHRF ratings system.
Balls to the wall racing I'd probably use the Lightning with it's planing hull and spinnaker. The 'old shoe' is a comfy cruiser after all.
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  #18  
Old 02-04-2010
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Okay - then let's try this...if you had to categorize sailboats in the broadest possible categories - what would they be?

BAY (Big Ass Yacht)
4KSB (you know)
LARB (Little Ass Race Boat)
BARB (Big Ass Race Boat)
MULTIs (you know)
ODWS (Other devices with sails)

Would that cover it?
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  #19  
Old 02-04-2010
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How about OS, ie "Old Shoe!"
I have a 6ksb, so where do I fit?
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Old 02-04-2010
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I think you should classify boats by their beer storage.
Soft cooler
Igloo cooler- portable
Igloo cooler- installed
Icebox under 2 cu ft
Icebox over 2 cu ft
12 volt fridge
12volt/110 fridge
12 volt/110 fridge/freezer
12 volt/110 fridge freezer/icemaker.

That would tell you everything you need to know about the boat, and allows for some creative rule bending. A windsurfer with an icemaker installed ahead of the mast would be a q-ship.
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