2010 Southern Straits Carnage

[PCP]

Originally Posted by Boomberries

Stillraining, thanks for the kind words and support.

I really don't want to go on about the SS race, but some things I've read here are a bit disconcerting, so I shall try to offer up a few last thoughts.

There seems to be the most conflict surrounding the responsibility of who should decide whether to race or not. Likely those with less experience dealing with sailing regulations (such as ISAF), understand less the significance of leaving the decision to race up to the skipper. For those still doubting the reasons why skippers must take the ultimate responsibility to race or not, I suggest reading fully the regulations and trying to understand the legalities of any variations made. I do not personally know of another person who has raced extensively and who takes it seriously, would see it any other way. It is the skipper's decision.

When I hear of some labels such as "weekend warrior sailors" or what constitutes seamanship, I do take a bit of a stand here. Other races, such as Vic-Maui and Sydney Hobart do require that a set percentage of crew have certain criteria met - such as first aid training, Safety At Sea courses, overnight and distance racing experience which is an excellent qualification that I fully endorse.

While Southern Straits does not have such a requirement, that is not to say that a bunch of "occasional" weekend warrior sailors went out in a foolhardy unprepared state and made a completely stupid decision to race. Most boats quit early on, many abandoned soon after the start or did not start at all. Some made the decision the day before, others made it while motoring out. I applaud everyone who made the right decision based on the current conditions, conditions forecast and their level of experience and the type of boat they were on.

No, I am not a "professional" sailor, but nor am I a flaky woman who does things without much consideration and thought, especially when it comes to safety and sailing. I've done a fair bit of offshore cruising and racing and was well prepared for what the conditions were like. I take it seriously (& yes have lots of fun, too). I've updated my safety equipment in the past year - including a new PFD, added a new quick release system for my tether, added leg straps for my PFD (thanks WHL for teaching me how to make my "garters"), and I have my own personal waterproof DSC GPS equipped radio that I keep on my person in case of falling overboard or the boat gets flipped. I sail a minimum of once a week/ year round.

I've read extensively about seasickness, hypothermia & first aid at sea, and regularly update the first aid kits on boats I race on. I've never been seasick and nobody on our boat was seasick during this race. ( one fellow was a bit nauseated early on and with quick intervention felt fine the rest of the day) Some people do not realize how important it is to try and control crew seasickness, as that alone can disable a boat very quickly if even one or two are affected. I go to safety courses when available, and I encourage others to do the same. I try to keep current reading inquiries into other sailing accidents.
Does this sounds like someone who is a weekend sailor? Do you think I'm alone in how prepared I am? Nope.

In our winter series (West Van) it is not unusual to have a race or two a series, with 25 - 40 knots of wind in rough seas. I have sailed in worse conditions that what was present on SS this year. 90% of our crew has extensive sailing experience, including offshore. They are not what I would call "weekend occasional" sailors.

Yes, there were possibly some weekend occasional sailors out. Yes, some were possibly not prepared for what was going on out there. Do I know them personally? No. Do I think they are the ones who kept racing? No
Generally for Southern Straights the skippers of the boats have very experienced crew onboard. I take sailing seriously, and I know LOTS of people doing this race have far more experience than I do.

Yes, there was a very close call on one boat. Frightening and sobering. I saw one of the crew from Incisor yesterday and just gave him a big hug. The right words were stuck in my throat behind some contained tears.

There are close calls every day in life .... from cars, to falls, to getting hit in the head from a well hit golf ball. Years ago I lost a brother to what would now be a preventable accident. Despite changes made to improve safety - some people will still make bad decisions!! Lots of people make smart decisions and not everyone should be lumped together and judged or labeled the same way

And for the record, as Cirdan made a point of, in SA; calls to the CG in that 24 hours period was a total of three (from two boats) out of 62 boats that were signed up for SS. (49 call in total). I think that helps demonstrates how self sufficient the skippers and crews out there really were.

Some of us will learn from this and other experiences,some will not. Over regulating everybody about everything does not encourage personal responsibility. Nor will it protect whose who make bad decisions, and in some cases it won't protect those who make all the right decisions either.

Over and out and done on this topic

Great post. But then is hard to understand why they called the race off. Reading your post it seems that the guys that were racing could stand the conditions and the guys that could not have already retired.

It don't seems that simple to me. For what I have read it looks that only luck has prevented some casualties. And if the race went on .... probabilities would be bigger, I mean for some terminal accidents and that does not seem acceptable to me.

Regards

Paulo

[Faster]

Originally Posted by Boomberries

I really don't want to go on about the SS race, but some things I've read here are a bit disconcerting, so I shall try to offer up a few last thoughts.........

That was an excellent summation, BB,. I agree that with the majority of the fleet withdrawing before or soon after the start, clearly most sailors made their individual calls according to boat and abilities correctly and in time.

Some stayed for a taste and bailed out into Howe sound, and even then getting back to WV was a challenge.

I certainly wouldn't want to see race committees crippled or otherwise compromised in running races. If class rules have stated limits then obviously they must be considered, but otherwise I think, if nothing else, this year's SS demonstrated that the majority of the crews made the right choices for themselves.

Great to have you and WHL contributing here, btw... welcome!

[AdamLein]

From an event organization standpoint, I can see the reasoning behind calling off a competition if something like 85% of the competitors drop out.

I guess it depends on the priorities of the organizers: if you want the event to be about toughing it out against whatever nature can throw at you, with high attrition and a race between the few remaining diehards (Vendee Globe), then it makes sense to keep the race going.

But if you're more interested in a large event with lots of exciting interactions between competitors and a nice distribution of results on the scoreboard, perhaps because you want a somewhat fair and objective way of declaring a "best" crew/boat, then you're not getting what you want anymore after there's only a handful of competitors left.

Also, just because we believe that the RC isn't liable and that responsibility lies entirely with the skipper, doesn't mean that the RC believes that lawyers believe it as well. Canceling the race says "At this point we needed to show that our priority was getting the boats back safely," as if the RC has any ability to ensure the safety of any boat once she's out on the water.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Boomberries

Stillraining, thanks for the kind words and support.

I really don't want to go on about the SS race, but some things I've read here are a bit disconcerting, so I shall try to offer up a few last thoughts.

There seems to be the most conflict surrounding the responsibility of who should decide whether to race or not. Likely those with less experience dealing with sailing regulations (such as ISAF), understand less the significance of leaving the decision to race up to the skipper. For those still doubting the reasons why skippers must take the ultimate responsibility to race or not, I suggest reading fully the regulations and trying to understand the legalities of any variations made. I do not personally know of another person who has raced extensively and who takes it seriously, would see it any other way. It is the skipper's decision.

When I hear of some labels such as "weekend warrior sailors" or what constitutes seamanship, I do take a bit of a stand here. Other races, such as Vic-Maui and Sydney Hobart do require that a set percentage of crew have certain criteria met - such as first aid training, Safety At Sea courses, overnight and distance racing experience which is an excellent qualification that I fully endorse.

While Southern Straits does not have such a requirement, that is not to say that a bunch of "occasional" weekend warrior sailors went out in a foolhardy unprepared state and made a completely stupid decision to race. Most boats quit early on, many abandoned soon after the start or did not start at all. Some made the decision the day before, others made it while motoring out. I applaud everyone who made the right decision based on the current conditions, conditions forecast and their level of experience and the type of boat they were on.

No, I am not a "professional" sailor, but nor am I a flaky woman who does things without much consideration and thought, especially when it comes to safety and sailing. I've done a fair bit of offshore cruising and racing and was well prepared for what the conditions were like. I take it seriously (& yes have lots of fun, too). I've updated my safety equipment in the past year - including a new PFD, added a new quick release system for my tether, added leg straps for my PFD (thanks WHL for teaching me how to make my "garters"), and I have my own personal waterproof DSC GPS equipped radio that I keep on my person in case of falling overboard or the boat gets flipped. I sail a minimum of once a week/ year round.

I've read extensively about seasickness, hypothermia & first aid at sea, and regularly update the first aid kits on boats I race on. I've never been seasick and nobody on our boat was seasick during this race. ( one fellow was a bit nauseated early on and with quick intervention felt fine the rest of the day) Some people do not realize how important it is to try and control crew seasickness, as that alone can disable a boat very quickly if even one or two are affected. I go to safety courses when available, and I encourage others to do the same. I try to keep current reading inquiries into other sailing accidents.
Does this sounds like someone who is a weekend sailor? Do you think I'm alone in how prepared I am? Nope.

In our winter series (West Van) it is not unusual to have a race or two a series, with 25 - 40 knots of wind in rough seas. I have sailed in worse conditions that what was present on SS this year. 90% of our crew has extensive sailing experience, including offshore. They are not what I would call "weekend occasional" sailors.

Yes, there were possibly some weekend occasional sailors out. Yes, some were possibly not prepared for what was going on out there. Do I know them personally? No. Do I think they are the ones who kept racing? No
Generally for Southern Straights the skippers of the boats have very experienced crew onboard. I take sailing seriously, and I know LOTS of people doing this race have far more experience than I do.

Yes, there was a very close call on one boat. Frightening and sobering. I saw one of the crew from Incisor yesterday and just gave him a big hug. The right words were stuck in my throat behind some contained tears.

There are close calls every day in life .... from cars, to falls, to getting hit in the head from a well hit golf ball. Years ago I lost a brother to what would now be a preventable accident. Despite changes made to improve safety - some people will still make bad decisions!! Lots of people make smart decisions and not everyone should be lumped together and judged or labeled the same way

And for the record, as Cirdan made a point of, in SA; calls to the CG in that 24 hours period was a total of three (from two boats) out of 62 boats that were signed up for SS. (49 call in total). I think that helps demonstrates how self sufficient the skippers and crews out there really were.

Some of us will learn from this and other experiences,some will not. Over regulating everybody about everything does not encourage personal responsibility. Nor will it protect whose who make bad decisions, and in some cases it won't protect those who make all the right decisions either.

Over and out and done on this topic

+1000

[wunhunglo]

Originally Posted by PCP

Great post. But then is hard to understand why they called the race off. Reading your post it seems that the guys that were racing could stand the conditions and the guys that could not have already retired.

It don't seems that simple to me. For what I have read it looks that only luck has prevented some casualties. And if the race went on .... probabilities would be bigger, I mean for some terminal accidents and that does not seem acceptable to me.

Regards

Paulo

Paulo,
Being on the first boat of only two boats to round the furthest mark on the long course, let me offer my observation too. The race was abandoned as a combination of many things. It had little to do with the various radio calls to the Coast Guard, as the vast majority did not come from the race participants, many of whom had already retired before the race was abandoned.

The updated forecast called for sustained and worsening conditions and since less than a handful of boats across 3 different courses were still racing/handling the conditions as one would expect of offshore race boats, it was prudent/practical to abandon.

For the two of us remaining on the long course, the Coast Guard's radio request to head for the nearest safe harbour didn't mean much relief as we still had to beat to windward in 55+ knots to get anywhere safe. 6 hours later, we reached a harbour. We could actually have finished the race !!

The two of us were also two boats fully prepped to do the 2300 mile Vic-Maui race in July this year, so it's something we had to be prepared for anyway.

I'm with BoomBoomVaroooooom on this one... we have probably flogged a dead horse. We all race under the ISAF Racing Rules of Sailing and do so knowing that it's the skipper's responsibility to decide whether or not to race. Crew also have a choice whether or not to sail in conditions beyond their capabilities.

If we ever expect to be competent in going offshore (racing or cruising), being self-sufficient, and safely surviving in storm conditions, we must be prepared and practiced at it.

You won't get that if someone else removes a skipper's responsibility for the decision.

I am getting sick of those that abdicate their personal responsibility, or expect someone else to be accountable, or someone else to blame when it goes wrong.

[GeorgeB]

Thanks Boomberries, DHLS was one of those races that started out poorly but ended really good. We had a pretty weird light offshore wind (NNE) in the morning, with practically all the fleet going south to keep their kites filled. Our set up allowed us to pinch incredibly high in light air so we and another boat went north which for the longest time looked like a major mistake. Fortunately, when the wind finally clocked, we caught the filling in southwesterly first. We were gettingt second thoughts on our decision while wallowing in the rollers over the Potato Patch as we listened to almost half the fleet retire on the VHF.

Yes, I was able to speak to the Switek rep about the MOM8. He apparently heard about what happened to you guys as he was reluctant to talk specifically about yours washing off. He did say that the nylon (Marlon?) mounting knobs are designed to shear off (to protect the unit in the event of a docking accident). He said that the SS wire and carabineer is the safety back-up and should have kept the device attached to the boat. He also said that one wire was sufficient. I’m planning on mounting a second one on the other bracket as additional back-up and to keep the unit in roughly the same orientation to the boat and not potentially flipped or twisted over. He didn’t like my original set up of having it directly off the stern as that did not have sufficient clearance for the unit to drop clear of the boat (as it is inflating). My unit is now mounted over the “a” in Freya on the port quarter.

Thanks’ for the helmet cam info. We had a very successful boat show (with a devastated checkbook to prove it) so we will be putting off any camera purchase until next year.

Parting shot at the Southern Straits: It is my understanding that this is a pretty premier race up in B.C. that attracts a lot of sleds from the US and it is also used as a tune-up for the Hawaii races. My friends used the race for that purpose as they are scheduled for the Pacific Cup to Kanehoe this July. We, in Northern California use races like the Coastal Cup, LongPac and Windjammer races for the same purpose. And although most of us who have to work for a living (making us “weekend warriors”.) The boats and crews who do these races are the crème of the crop. I’m pretty sure that the weekend duffers were a very, very small minority in the SS as they are rare in our offshore races. The safety and equipment standards that the boats have to meet in order to be eligible rules out about 90% of the boats in our area. If I was to fault the RC at all, it was them knowing the forecast was going to be bad and they started anyway. I know that they had logic in not delaying (the next day’s high killed the wind), I think that your local CG will use the negative publicity to be more intrusive in the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if the they start acting more like CG Group San Francisco.

The “Potato Patch” is a named portion of the North Shoal at the Golden Gate. It rises abruptly to 35-38’ (low tide) from over 100’ for the rest of the Gulf of the Farallones. It is the first shallow water the Bearing Sea waves encounter and has been a named shoal since the 1800’s. Legend has it getting it’s name when a schooner carrying a cargo of potatoes broke up while attempting a crossing. Like the other bars on the West Coast, it is quite hazardous in the wrong sea state. The USCG forced a cancellation of the Duxbury Reef race a couple of years ago because of the conditions. To see “typical” conditions, rent “Sailing in Heavy Weather” from Netflix.

[PCP]

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

...If I was to fault the RC at all, it was them knowing the forecast was going to be bad and they started anyway. ...

Well, this is what I have said: "It seems that the "Straits" race was open to almost everybody, experienced or not and in this case it seems to me that Canceling the race was the right attitude. Considering the level of seamanship and preparation of many crews (that was evident by the number of boats that voluntarily abandoned the race before it was officially cancelled) I have doubts if the race comittee, that should have up to date metereological previsions, should not have postponed the race, in the first place".

By the posts of GeorgeB and wunhunglo it sems clear that there were few crews that were experienced enough to race on those conditions. It also seems clear that most of the crews didn't and retire.

RC knew the meteo prevision and after all evidence, it seems to me that they probably should have postponed the race, but also that they were right in cancelling it (face to the huge number of abandons and to the potential risk for the others).

Of course this is just my opinion, but I don't understand why it seems to have pissed some guys. I apollogize. I had no intent in pissing nobody .

If some tragic accident(s) would have happened on this race, that would make this a much bigger issue:

Originally Posted by GeorgeB

...I think that your local CG will use the negative publicity to be more intrusive in the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if the they start acting more like CG Group San Francisco....

Regards

Paulo

[Boomberries]

Hello Paulo - I did not get the sense that anyone was pissed off at you. : ) It is a subject that deserves time & considered thought. A very good understanding of racing standards is very helpful to arrive at informed, fair minded opinions. We (sailors) all should care about situations like this and hopefully learn from it.

I would like to say that just because a boat retires does not mean necessarily, nor does it prove, that they were overwhelmed or under prepared for the conditions. It is probably true in some cases, but probably not all.

Even on boats that are professionally crewed and prepped, in conditions like those during SS -things break, some crew can suffer injuries, stuff happens and those boats too, (pro racers) decide to make a prudent decision to withdraw or retire.

I look forward to exploring other threads to learn more about the experiences of others here in SN.

GeorgeB - awesome picture of the boat you were racing on. Thanks for the info re: the Mom8 and how the Potato Patch got the name. When I sailed there last year, someone had told me about that area and I was looking out for it on our way down

: ) BB

[puddinlegs]

Originally Posted by PCP

It seems that you have misunderstood me. What I was saying is that there is a huge difference in seamanship between a professional ocean racing sailor and an ocasional weekend racer and that in that race there was a lot of those. Conditions that are safe for a professional can be deadly for an amateur.

What I was saying is that the "Straits" is a race where no special qualification is needed and therefore it is expected that you will find some relatively inexperienced crews and skippers. Furthermore, on this forum, on a thread about a somewhat inexperienced sailor that was refused on a crew for that race, the conclusion that was reached was that the skipper was also inexperienced.

On a race where you know that there are relatively inexperienced crews, it is not safe to let the race begin knowing that there will be conditions that only very experienced crews can manage. It was for this reason that I have said that probably the race comittee should have postponed the race.

Do you know many weekend sailors that can go safely, solo or duo, under spinaker on these conditions?:

YouTube - Thierry Chabagny et SUZUKI AUTOMOBILES

Regards

Paulo

Paulo, with due respect, there are folks with Olympic medals in their trophy cases, mini transat participants, one design national champions, and a large number of very skilled amateurs with thousands of miles and decades of ocean experience that participate in the southern straights and other races in the region. These aren't after work beer can races. Granted, while you occasionally find a boat with too little experience for particular conditions, they are rare in the PNW. Even in good weather, tidal changes, currents, damn cold water, and navigation challenges are well considered by the vast majority of boaters (both racers and cruisers) in the region. I'd say that it was experience and knowing personal and/or equipment limits that kept a number of boats from leaving the dock. You asked, "Do you know many weekend sailors that can go safely, solo or duo, under spinaker on these conditions?" In the conditions in the video, yes. In this year's SS, from the observations of many who were there, I don't even know that a professional could have without destroying their boat given the wave size and more importantly, wave period.

[smackdaddy]

I'm bumping this thread because it was one of the all-time best at SN. Real sailors working together. Just like the Mac thread.

It's the "help and learn" mantra. Not the "rip and gloat" approach of typical keyboard mariners. That's what SN's all about. And that's what I love about this place!