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post #11 of 30 Old 04-13-2010
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The PHRF handicapper gave me 3 points for the shoal keel, so in THEORY it shouldn't be that bad, should it?
I race mostly in light air and it seems she has lots of issues in these conditions. As soon as it starts blowing she powers up and beats many competitors.

I would think that a shoal keel would make a lot more than 3 points worth of difference. Just my two cents. I would guess that it is the chief contributor to difficulty sailing to your rating.
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post #12 of 30 Old 04-13-2010
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I would think that a shoal keel would make a lot more than 3 points worth of difference. Just my two cents. I would guess that it is the chief contributor to difficulty sailing to your rating.
Forgive my ignorance about this type of boat, but why don't thy all have the same type of keel?

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post #13 of 30 Old 04-13-2010
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I'm surprised there is not more than 3 secs. Altho looking at a US Sailing PHRF hi-lo-ave chart, the ave is 75 for a std keel, the wing keel is 78, with lows of 66 for the std, and 78 for the WK. This 12 sec difference seems more in line with "MOST" boats were a deeper fin and a shoal fin are used. On my boat, a Jeanneau Arcadia, there is 9 secs credit IIRC for a shoal, and 12 for a CB version vs my std fin keel.

The low for you boat, not sure I believe it, is std at 120, WK at 81. That 120 seems like a gift to me.

Locally in Puget sound, there is a level 72 class, which includes J35's, S35's and Express 37's as I recall.

BUT, as mentioned, some of the issues may be the sails, rig tune, "YOUR" ability to skipper, crew doing there jobs, non clean bottom. I got .5-.7 knots the other day having a diver clean my bottom! Look at ALL of the above issues that I mentioned, which are repeats of others above me.

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post #14 of 30 Old 04-13-2010
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I think some boats just have very narrow tuning groves and you need to everything just right or the boat's a dog. I knew a fellow who moved from a C&C 30 in which he was very competitive to a Peterson 34, in which he couldn't get out of his own way. Often he'd be passed by many of the slower boats with a later start.

After one season, he moved onto a different boat and got back into his groove.

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post #15 of 30 Old 04-14-2010
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If your boat's sailing to it's rating in heavier air with old sails, but not in light air, there's something wrong with sail trim and driving. Over trimmed boats are just deadly slow in light air.

The best piece of advice above? Find someone who's been successful in the class and have them over for a look and a sail. I'm sure they'll be able to point you in the right direction. As an anecdote, there was a lovely and fast late production J-35 in the area. Well prepped, new sails, etc... Did a couple of races with them. In the end, if you over stand every windward mark, don't quite understand downwind helming, and don't share the helm on a long day, no matter how fast the boat should be, you won't. The owner was convinced the boat was slow and finally sold it. If I had my heart set on a J-35, I'd have bought it in a heartbeat.
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post #16 of 30 Old 04-14-2010
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Forgive my ignorance about this type of boat, but why don't thy all have the same type of keel?
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post #17 of 30 Old 04-14-2010
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Shoal draft for thin water, I looked into Schock 35's and J 35's after I sold my much loved J 29. Because of the draft (close to 7 feet) my docking would have went from $900.00 to $3800.00 for the summer and another $1K for the winter. I bought another J 29 and a new trailer and now have free winter storage at home.

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post #18 of 30 Old 04-16-2010 Thread Starter
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I'm surprised there is not more than 3 secs. Altho looking at a US Sailing PHRF hi-lo-ave chart, the ave is 75 for a std keel, the wing keel is 78, with lows of 66 for the std, and 78 for the WK. This 12 sec difference seems more in line with "MOST" boats were a deeper fin and a shoal fin are used. On my boat, a Jeanneau Arcadia, there is 9 secs credit IIRC for a shoal, and 12 for a CB version vs my std fin keel.

The low for you boat, not sure I believe it, is std at 120, WK at 81. That 120 seems like a gift to me.

Locally in Puget sound, there is a level 72 class, which includes J35's, S35's and Express 37's as I recall.

BUT, as mentioned, some of the issues may be the sails, rig tune, "YOUR" ability to skipper, crew doing there jobs, non clean bottom. I got .5-.7 knots the other day having a diver clean my bottom! Look at ALL of the above issues that I mentioned, which are repeats of others above me.

Marty
Marty, What is "US Sailing PHRF hi-lo-ave chart". I've never heard that before.

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post #19 of 30 Old 04-16-2010
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US Sailing, which governs most recreational racing in the USA. The PHRF numbers are the handicapping numbers for a boat. The High Low Average chart is a list of the various boats and what their HIGH, LOW and AVERAGE PHRF numbers are. The numbers vary by locale, so there is some range on them.

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Marty, What is "US Sailing PHRF hi-lo-ave chart". I've never heard that before.

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post #20 of 30 Old 04-16-2010
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http://www.ussailing.org/phrf/Tool_%...021%202008.pdf

There is the link I have saved, I recall there is a newer version, but for the most part, other than the thru ________ date, the numbers appeared to be the same.

As Dog mentioned, it just shows the range a given boat has ratings for thru out the US/Canada, from the lowest/fastest ratings, to the highest/slowest rating, along with an ave for all the reporting divisions. Some locals have base rating links on there webpages too such as this one from PHRF-NewEngland which has been updated as of jan 10, 2010.
PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps

I've seen one for a group on one of the great lakes too.

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