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  #1  
Old 04-12-2010
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Schock 35

I've recently bought Schock 35, she has shoal draft and PHRF of 88. The plans are to use her extensively in various regattas, but after the few races I felt she is not fully performed to her ability, I would say PHRF 140-150, as she can barely keep up with J-30.
Any suggestions, comments and advices will be much appreciated.
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Old 04-12-2010
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Oh my... that's not good... It could be a number of things. Not knowing your previous experience, it's a bit tough, but first off, I'd say condition of foils (sails, keel, and rudder). Is the prop folding properly? What point of sail are you having the most trouble with? If it's upwind and all of the above are good, the next culprit might be rig tune. Then again, it could be poor sail trim, or bad driving...no offense, there's just not enough background info.
Tell us more specifically when you're having trouble with boat speed or sailing angles, there might be a more accurate diagnosis.

I'd also check here:

Schock 35 Racing News

and ask for tuning information.

Last edited by puddinlegs; 04-12-2010 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 04-12-2010
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JohnRPollard is a jewel in the rough JohnRPollard is a jewel in the rough JohnRPollard is a jewel in the rough
We raced the NY 36 against a Schock 35 fairly often in club racing on the Chesapeake.

They are very similar hulls, both built by W.D. Schock. I'm not sure if the NY 36 was a derivative hull, or a tweak, or truly a different design. But the NY 36 had a much taller, fractional rig.

The Schock 35 was much lower rated than us (we were PHRF 114 at the time), but I seem to recall beating it routinely, as well as a bit of grousing about the disparate ratings.

How old are your sails? These boats generally need trim racing sails to do well. Old cruising sails, or even tired racing sails, would really give you a big hit.

You should be able to easily beat a J-30 boat for boat (in theory, the handicap rating should even that out so you'd be pretty close corrected).

I would recommend getting someone knowledgeable to come out and sail with you for a race or two. If new sails are possibly in the budget, a reputable sailmaker would be a good choice. The sailmaker could help you identify what the issues are and help prioritize which sails should be replaced.

Be forewarned, these boats carry large sail inventories in order to race competitively. Minimum 3 headsails, two spinnakers (preferably 3). It can add up.
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I would have to guess the single most detrimental factor
to your performance is the shoal draft keel. There is no
substitute for deep draft in a race boat. Schock 35s are
powered up machines, that typically do well in light air venues,
and they need all the righting moment they can muster.
Your rating sounds a little harsh, but the boat should
still out perform a J30.
What conditions do you typically sail in?
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Old 04-13-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddinlegs View Post
Oh my... that's not good... It could be a number of things. Not knowing your previous experience, it's a bit tough, but first off, I'd say condition of foils (sails, keel, and rudder). Is the prop folding properly? What point of sail are you having the most trouble with? If it's upwind and all of the above are good, the next culprit might be rig tune. Then again, it could be poor sail trim, or bad driving...no offense, there's just not enough background info.
Tell us more specifically when you're having trouble with boat speed or sailing angles, there might be a more accurate diagnosis.

I'd also check here:

Schock 35 Racing News

and ask for tuning information.
Keel and rudder are both alright, but sails are really tired. Most noticeable in the light air, especially downwind. Spinnaker is 0.5 of the good size When the wind pick up to 17-20 kts, she behaves much better compare to the other boats.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post
We raced the NY 36 against a Schock 35 fairly often in club racing on the Chesapeake.

They are very similar hulls, both built by W.D. Schock. I'm not sure if the NY 36 was a derivative hull, or a tweak, or truly a different design. But the NY 36 had a much taller, fractional rig.

The Schock 35 was much lower rated than us (we were PHRF 114 at the time), but I seem to recall beating it routinely, as well as a bit of grousing about the disparate ratings.

How old are your sails? These boats generally need trim racing sails to do well. Old cruising sails, or even tired racing sails, would really give you a big hit.

You should be able to easily beat a J-30 boat for boat (in theory, the handicap rating should even that out so you'd be pretty close corrected).

I would recommend getting someone knowledgeable to come out and sail with you for a race or two. If new sails are possibly in the budget, a reputable sailmaker would be a good choice. The sailmaker could help you identify what the issues are and help prioritize which sails should be replaced.

Be forewarned, these boats carry large sail inventories in order to race competitively. Minimum 3 headsails, two spinnakers (preferably 3). It can add up.
Main and genoa are both old. Sails inventory include two #1, 2, 3, storm jib, two mains, light and heavy spinnakers. Almost all sails are tired, storm jib seems unused . I had a jib furler when I bought her, which is removed now. No doubt new sails will add some spice, but even with old sails she should be much faster. I am planning to check the shrouds and stays tension as it can really effect her speed. Couldn't find the right numbers though ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COOL View Post
I would have to guess the single most detrimental factor
to your performance is the shoal draft keel. There is no
substitute for deep draft in a race boat. Schock 35s are
powered up machines, that typically do well in light air venues,
and they need all the righting moment they can muster.
Your rating sounds a little harsh, but the boat should
still out perform a J30.
What conditions do you typically sail in?
The PHRF handicapper gave me 3 points for the shoal keel, so in THEORY it shouldn't be that bad, should it?
I race mostly in light air and it seems she has lots of issues in these conditions. As soon as it starts blowing she powers up and beats many competitors.
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Having raced on and against Shock 35s for years I can assure you that the standard S35 is a PHRF killer in light air. Obviously you need a good bottom, and good sails to make the boat go. The S35 is devastating in light air and chop. You need the right mast tune and proper set up of the backstay and and runners (checkstays really). Also you need a minimum of 8 crew and better yet 10 crew if the the wind is up.

In medium air the J-35 is faster and heavier air they are about equal. I'm not sure about 3 seconds/mile for a shoal keel. Sounds like not enough depending on the keel design. How is it different from the standard keel?

If you are boat for boat with a J-30 in light air, you have got some other problems. J-30s aren't exactly rocket ships in light air. Suggest you find a professional to help you sort the boat out. You will have a lot more fun when you do.
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Old 04-13-2010
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When you say the sails are tired, how tired? Look to see where the draft is on all the sails. Usually, you can expect older sails to lose their shape in heavier air and still be okay in lighter air, unless they are very tired.

If you get a good sailmaker to come for a sail, he or she will be able to tell you. Or you can photograph the sails. Shoot them from the foot up so the draft stripes are clearly visible.
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Old 04-13-2010
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Boat Prep is key in any kind of racing. It just kills me when some one post about not going fast and getting killed on the race course and then you find out sometimes 10 post later that the boat has old sail's and a 40 grit bottom( not saying you have a bad bottom). The biggest killer in not doing well is boat prep, if you want to be in the front of the pack then 75% of it happens before the boat even get's wet. If your budget does not allow for new sail's then you must accept finishing mid fleet. A smooth bottom of 400 is also key for light air, I can assure you my J 29 has the smooth bottom and I am faster then the J 30 and in light air a rough bottom is a speed killer. Best place to start is the Schock 35 class get on another boat and see how it is set up clean the bottom before every race and budget for new sail's. If the boat came this way then it must have not been raced for along time and you should have gotten a good deal on it. J 35, Schock 35 and such are $45K boats sometimes you just havent spent the full $45K when you buy it that comes later. Also on this forum I say it is a more cruiser forum than race there are other forums that are more race then cruise. I would also question the 3 seconds for the shoal keel I would think it should be more.

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