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post #1 of 31 Old 08-10-2010 Thread Starter
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PHRF questions

When you apply for a PHRF rating do you have to choose spin or non spin fleet or can you do some races as non spin and others using it?

I'd like to do some races, especially some of the longer distance ones here on the bay and also some club races. Downwind is not a wing-keeled C36's fastest point of sail especially in light air so a long race could be torturous unless we could use our asym. For the club races, I'd expect to be short handed, probably with pick up crew and would not want to use the chute.

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post #2 of 31 Old 08-10-2010
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The answer is here, Para 2, Section 4:

D:\phrf\Genbusn\homepage\html\memshp98.htm

Section 4. SAILS. You must choose either no spinnaker, symmetric, asymmetric, or both types of spinnakers. Provide the overlap of your largest jib or genoa. Report any mainsails with girth dimensions exceeding (i.e. oversize roach) the default values in our Standard Sail and Equipment Specifications on a separate page. If using symmetric spinnakers (or both types) you must record the girth "G" and luff "L" of your largest spinnaker. If using asymmetric spinnakers (or both types) you must record the requested information (ALU, AF, AMG, AF) for the largest asymmetric spinnaker. You must also list any “Code 0” sails (midgirth between 50% and 75%) you are using and list the dimensions as if it were an asymmetric spinnaker. Make sure you indicate how the spinnaker(s) are tacked to the boat (pole, bow sprit or lanyard) as indicated on the form. If requesting roller furling credit, complete all the RF information required on the application form. If the information is incomplete you may not receive a RF credit to your boats rating. See diagram below for example of rig measurements and RF information required.

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post #3 of 31 Old 08-10-2010
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Not sure about your area, but George on here would know the local rules best, in Puget sound, I can sail either nfs, or fs. NFS is 18sec a mile slower than my fs time. Altho this can vary from 15 to 24 secs depending upon headsail vs spin size.

Also if you start a series in nfs, and you use a spin for one of 8 races, at least locally, ALL 8 races with be at your fs rating, not 7 nfs, 1 fs. If a single day race, you usually need to say what you will be doing by a day or two before the start, depending upon the length, club etc.

Generally speaking, you should get a fs/nfs rating.

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post #4 of 31 Old 08-10-2010 Thread Starter
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Thanks.

So, I wonder how bad a hit I'd take if I chose Aysm, but did the short races without it?

Whatever it is, its probably worth it for me, since the long races are what I really hope to do and would really want to be able to use the asym.

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post #5 of 31 Old 08-10-2010
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There is no hit, at least for me doing a sym vs AS. Both may be measured the same, at least they are up here. It all comes down to, IS your spin maxed out! if not, then you get a credit if smaller than say 3%, you get a 3 sec credit, if 6% smaller you get a 6 sec, smaller than this, you do not get credits, but the time you have to gain, may not make up for the smaller spin vs a 155 wing on wing.

Also if an AS works, is when you can sail at 120 to the wind, if the leg is literally downwind, I have had folks NFS WW beat as I tack down the course, or folks with sym go farther down wind, ie 170-175, and beat me. Depending upon the courses you do, AS are not always the best. I have been playing with pulling the tack out to 30 or so degree's max per rules with a spin pole, this has been helping get us farther down wind. ALong with some AS's are better designed and made for down wind, vs most try to work all but straight down wind, to a reach. Like my AS, I can sail upwards of 60* into the wind. It is also a 6 sec credit as it is a code 3. Not sure this sail really helps in many conditions, so a bigger code 5 is in the cards to purchase when I have the funds. I am glad I bought this AS, as it does do what I wanted, when I bought it etc. ie be about 90% of max, easy to use with spouse and I cruising, omething to learn with etc.

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post #6 of 31 Old 08-10-2010
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You need to ask the fleet captain/race director or whatever. You could have a weekly series that you choose to do only white sail but some special distance races that you want to do with a chute.
I know around here that would be no problem. They would just enter the correct rating for different races/series.

Good Luck
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post #7 of 31 Old 08-11-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlifesailor View Post
When you apply for a PHRF rating do you have to choose spin or non spin fleet or can you do some races as non spin and others using it?

I'd like to do some races, especially some of the longer distance ones here on the bay and also some club races. Downwind is not a wing-keeled C36's fastest point of sail especially in light air so a long race could be torturous unless we could use our asym. For the club races, I'd expect to be short handed, probably with pick up crew and would not want to use the chute.
In my experience generally when you apply for a rating you also get provided with a series of "adjustments" right on the cert. For example, we just got re-rated to 114, and it basically laid out what would happen if we lost the asym or sym (3 sec penalty for having both), the pole (6 sec bonus for no pole) etc. 115 is an important class break for us that we were now on the wrong side of... racing a cruiser with a microwave and flatscreen tv against stripped-out bowsprit racers. So we decided to lose the symmetrics to get us to 117, found out that we didn't pole the asym back at all as it rotated to windward just find so ditched the pole as well and now we're racing at 123, all on the same cert

I've seen many other ones like that as well, but it may just be a PHRFNE thing
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post #8 of 31 Old 08-11-2010 Thread Starter
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Jeesh, and people wonder why racing is in decline. All I want to do is a few beer can races and participate in some 70-120 mile races and I don't want to spend a fortune to do it.

I guess I'll include the asym in the application and take what I get. I don't expect to be at the front of the pack, and may not get in to the club races anyway, but I really want to take on the challenge of the longer overnight races just for the experience.

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post #9 of 31 Old 08-11-2010
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Don't take this as fact because I'm far from an authority on these matters, but I was under the impression that you get two ratings when you fill out your application a "racing" rating which would include your spinnakers and a "cruising" rating that is used for non-spinnaker racing.
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post #10 of 31 Old 08-11-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlifesailor View Post
Jeesh, and people wonder why racing is in decline. All I want to do is a few beer can races and participate in some 70-120 mile races and I don't want to spend a fortune to do it.

I guess I'll include the asym in the application and take what I get. I don't expect to be at the front of the pack, and may not get in to the club races anyway, but I really want to take on the challenge of the longer overnight races just for the experience.
Go with the asym, penatly should be a -3, might even be "free" if you already have a large sym. Expect a ratings hit of -6 to -12 depending on your rig compared to "white sails only"
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