Rigging up an A-sail - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Racing
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-05-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 84
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
Tweegs is on a distinguished road
Rigging up an A-sail

Weíve discovered that the JAM credit doesnít nearly compensate us for not flying a spinnaker/Asym, and in order to get in the game, weíve got to start flying a kite (our local race series doesnít have a separate JAM class. JAM boats get a 12 sec. credit).

Typical winds on the lake are 15 knots or less and seldom do we have dead downwind legs. This makes the Asymmetrical the most commonly used spinnaker in the fleet.

The issue at hand is that my boat isnít A sail friendly. Masthead rigged, only two sheaves in the truck (main and jib halyards) and no deck hardware for the tack.

Iím getting conflicting advice on whether the A sail should be rigged outside the fore triangle, or inside. Either way, I have to get a block fixed to the mast and run a halyard external to the mast.

Inside the fore triangle would be easiest. An eye pad, perhaps, just below the forestay with a good block and shackle. A block on deck as far forward as I can get, with a backing plate, for the tack.

Outside the triangle, as I see it, would be a bigger challenge. There isnít any real estate above the forestay, so Iíd need something on top of the truck. There Iím going to run in to clearance issues with the VHF and anemometer. The halyard from the block to the cleat (not so much to the head) might have an issue with the forestay if we need to jibe over to the other board. Also, I canít get someone far enough up the mast where they could see while drilling into the truck, the work would have to be done overhead and blind. This is sure to result in a drill bit going through a sheave, pin or halyard, and with my luck, all three. And there is still the tack to deal with.

Maybe there is a better way to get the block above the forestay. Maybe everything will be just fine with the sail rigged inside the fore triangle. I donít have the experience to make that call on my own and could use a little help. Maybe Iím missing something entirely. What do you think?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 07-05-2012
Tim R.'s Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 1,539
Thanks: 1
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Tim R. is on a distinguished road
Re: Rigging up an A-sail

What model boat do you have? Surely, others who own that same boat have flown an A-sail.

We also have a masthead and fly ours in front of the headstay but we also have a nice sprit with a padeye.
__________________
Tim R.
Out cruising
1997 Caliber 40LRC

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

-----------------------------------------------------

Last edited by Tim R.; 07-05-2012 at 11:03 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 07-05-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 84
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
Tweegs is on a distinguished road
Re: Rigging up an A-sail

It's an Irwin 39, not many of them out there.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 07-05-2012
zz4gta's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 2,422
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 7
zz4gta is on a distinguished road
Re: Rigging up an A-sail

Rig it outside the forestay.
Post a picture of your masthead bits, or draw a sketch and post it.
You'll need a halyard, internal is better in most cases, but external works as well.
The tack line needs to be adjustable and preferably in front of the forestay, but attached somewhere on the stem works well. I would not tack it behind the forestay.
Do you have turning blocks at the aft corners?
How long is the luff on your chute compared to the forestay length?

Now for the news you don't want to hear:
If you're already getting a 12 sec. credit for not flying a chute, and there aren't many DDW legs, then you're not that disadvantaged and need to find improvements elsewhere.
__________________
Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 07-05-2012
Tim R.'s Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 1,539
Thanks: 1
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Tim R. is on a distinguished road
Re: Rigging up an A-sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4gta View Post
...Now for the news you don't want to hear:
If you're already getting a 12 sec. credit for not flying a chute, and there aren't many DDW legs, then you're not that disadvantaged and need to find improvements elsewhere.
Not necessarily true. Asyms do much better on broad reaches. If you have a lot of broad reaches, an Asym should overcome a 12sec/mi adjustment. On some boats, the Asym is so much better on a reach that they will do linked reaches to a downwind mark to achieve a better VMG compared to DDW.

Try these sites for specific info regarding your Irwin:

Irwin Owners Group

Irwin Yachts
__________________
Tim R.
Out cruising
1997 Caliber 40LRC

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

-----------------------------------------------------
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 07-05-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 1,790
Thanks: 6
Thanked 41 Times in 39 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Rigging up an A-sail

Tweegs,

It really depends on how much you want to spend. The ideal would honestly be to replace your mast head crane with one that has more sheaves to install a halyard, possibly with a spinnaker crane. Run the new halyard internally, and drill a new exit plate in the mast. For the tack, add a retrofit spinnaker pole (I like the one from Selden).

This will also be the most expensive by far.

Instead of the new crane you can likely install a spinnaker bail (see Masthead Spinnaker Bails ) it is still much prefered to run the halyard internally, but if you can't, these will act as a location to add a block.


Either way a spinnaker should always be flown above the forestay, and outside of it. Otherwise you will have major chaffing issues as the halyard tail is forced outside and around the stay attachment points. A-sails in particular need clear runs, because they are pulling to the side, not just forward. If the sail can't fly free of the stay it will defiantly rub there, and you will spend a lot of time either replacing the halyard or the head patch of the spinnaker.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney

Last edited by Stumble; 07-06-2012 at 08:18 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 07-05-2012
ASA and PSIA Instructor
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,425
Thanks: 6
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 15
sailingfool will become famous soon enough
Re: Rigging up an A-sail

To properly fly a spinnaker you need to add a spinnaker crane.

If you want to use an asym for performance, you need to also add a sprit to get sail area, otherwise you should use a symmetric with a pole. Flying a cruising chute (no sprit, no crane, no pole) would be better than a white sail, but not close to a sym or large asym.
__________________
Certified...in several regards...
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 07-05-2012
SchockT's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,384
Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 22 Posts
Rep Power: 3
SchockT is on a distinguished road
Re: Rigging up an A-sail

You definitely need to fly the chute outside the foretriangle, and you will need a spinnaker halyard. If you really want to do it right a small bowsprit should also be used, although plenty of cruisers fly them from the stem or anchor roller. If you are going to get a chute built new, then you should do it right!
__________________
1979 Santana 30 Tall Rig
Hull#101
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 07-05-2012
paulk's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,533
Thanks: 4
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 15
paulk is on a distinguished road
Re: Rigging up an A-sail

The simplest setup might be to bolt a nice solid tang flat on top of your mast, sticking out forward, to act as a crane. The tang has to be long enough and strong enough so you can mount a very strong swivel block on it that is completely clear of the forestay. You can then run the halyard through it externally, and not have to worry about exit holes weakening your mast. You will probably need to add some cleats P & S for the new halyard. You will also want to figure out how to work a winch into the equation in case it fills 10' from the top and starts to hoist your crew off the deck. 12 sec/ mile is a LOT.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 07-06-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 84
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
Tweegs is on a distinguished road
Re: Rigging up an A-sail

Appreciate the feedback.

Treilley- Yea, I spend a fair amount of time on those sites. Lots of good general info there, but not much on racing the boat.

Zz4gta- Weíve got a ton of work to do from a crew perspective. Weíre running a 144 phrf and really canít even sail to that. We know of one other Irwin 39 here in the State that has a 126 and wins. Tomorrow, weather permitting, we are bringing on a pro to help tune the rigging. Once thatís done, itís all about us. New main last year, new 135% genny this year (both are Pentax, Mylar/Kevlar), feathering prop this year, new traveler, new Genoa lead tracks and cars, rigid vangÖno excuses left, got to be us.


Seems I didnít take any pics when the mast was down. I need to send someone up to adjust the windex anyway, Iíll have him snap a few while heís up there.

I assume the crane would have to be a custom fab. Easy enough, plenty of machinists here at work that owe me a favor. The question then becomes how much load would be on it. (40 footer with an appropriate size asym).

I keep looking at the bow and wondering how I would put on a sprit or get a block out there. Have a look:
Rigging up an A-sail-p7250013.jpg

Rigging up an A-sail-p7250015.jpg

Rigging up an A-sail-p7250019.jpg
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Junk/Sampan rigging vs. Cat rigging ClaireFAISE General Discussion (sailing related) 10 09-21-2010 08:59 PM
Rigging? jjdin General Discussion (sailing related) 5 06-15-2009 07:36 PM
New Rigging eduardodias Gear & Maintenance 5 08-23-2006 09:20 AM
rod rigging ackmahoney General Discussion (sailing related) 0 02-01-2001 06:23 PM
need rigging & sail info lace Gear & Maintenance 0 11-19-2000 12:16 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:23 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.