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  #1  
Old 09-22-2012
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Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

Hi,

I own Farr IMS 40.7 and have taken part in races in Korea last 2 years.

However the rating of ORC Tmf and PHRF Tcf for her is not certain.
(last year Tmf was 1.070 and this year Tcf was 1.144)
Why is the rating different?

If there is the rating in your country, please let me know?
If you have Grand Soleil 42R and Sydney 40 rating as well
that would be really great to compare
because those are rival ! ^^

Cheers

Sun KIM
+82 10 8858 3200
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Old 09-22-2012
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Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

These are the result 2 years ago in one of yacht race in here!

DUFOUR 40 RUS 616.3 0.974
FIRST40.7 RUS 599.7 1.001
BC 46 KOR 533.3 1.125
FARR 44 IMS RUS 578.3 1.038
CORUM 27OD FRA 653.3 0.918
GRAND SOLEIL 42R RUS 564.0 1.064
FIRST40.7 RUS 599.6 1.001
Farr IMS 40.7 KOR 560.6 1.070
YOK-40 RUS 581.4 1.032
31 N (NY-30) KOR 673.0 0.892
CONCORDIA TAYLOR 47 KOR 586.1 1.024
YAMAHA 31EX KOR 700.9 0.856
BENETEAU EUROPE KOR 617.6 0.972
DUBOIS 30 KOR 673.6 0.891
HANS CHRISTIAN 52 KOR 629.4 0.953
NELSON MARECK 68 KOR 482.9 1.242
BEYOND 36 CR KOR 567.9 1.057
YAMAHA 30SII CHN 679.6 0.883
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Old 09-22-2012
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Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

I'm not sure you will find much useful discussion on rating systems on this site. You might try posing the same question over at Sailing Anarchy, which has a much higher population of racers!
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Old 09-22-2012
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Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

I would agree, that SA is probably better. But being as PHRF is most widely used in the states vs irc. So not sure how to change out from PHR ratings to IRC...so

your boat hi, lo ave phrf is 9, 15, 12
GS44r, no 42r listed, 12, 12, 12
syd 41 18, 18, 18
Swan 45 -18, -6, -12
Trip 41, 43od 6,9,6

You can look at the complete listing here
http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets...+Handicaps.pdf

Marty
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Old 09-23-2012
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Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

ORC is very different from PHRF, and there doesn't seem to be a direct conversion between the two, but I can't explain how ORC works. When the conversation changes to handicap systems, my eyes glaze over and I go looking for another rum!
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Old 09-23-2012
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Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

I'd agree, that trying to compare one system to another does not always work. Heck, Even doing PHRF ToT vs ToD can get goofy, as ToT has three wind factor ratings. Final time splits between boats stays the same, but the Zero boat for lack of better term changes, from around 140, to 80 to 20 tween the light 0-7 vs med 8-15 vs heavy 15+. Zero boat meaning those slower get time taken off, vs faster adding time.

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Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

Hi Marty !

Thank you for the PHRF listing !

I'm trying to compare that with the PHRF rating in Korean.
(there are some difference about from zero point to 2 digit number)

However what's the difference between High Low and Ave PHRF?
Is it range from slow to fast one?
Which one should I adapt to?
Is it entitle to the Race commitee?

Sorry I am now learning about rating so not much know about.. ^^

Cheers

Sun KIM
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Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

I find out the difference of PHRF low high & ave. ^^

Corrected Time = Elapsed Time * TCF
TCF = 650 / (600 + PHRF) for Low Range (Wind less 5m/s)
= 650 / (550 + PHRF) for Medium Range (Wind 5~8m/s)
= 650 / (480 + PHRF) for High Range (Wind over 8m/s)
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Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

Sun,

You last post is not the high, low ave. That figure is for "Time on Time" phrf figuring vs "Time on Distance" figuring.

The High, low, ave I refered to, as does the paper from US Sailing, is literally that, the highest/fastest base rating for a given boat, lowest/slowest base rating, and the ave of the 3 or more boats that need to be rated over the last 5 yrs with in the multiple area's that USS has jurisdiction in the US and Canada IIRC. This shows the variance among the different areas and how they might use the ability to have local conditions.

S Cal for example, uses three different base ratings for boats, one if doing buoy's, another if doing what will be longer races of 3-4 hrs or more by less than 24, another of doing ocean races. This allows them to hopefully handicap boats that have say running ability's at a faster time on the ocean of a race like the transpac is run, where as if that boat does not point or reach as well, allow for the slowness of those points, vs a boat that is somewhat rounded in ALL points of sail but slower in the run part.

In your case, You boat the fastest rated boat is a 9, slowest a 15, ave for all boats is 12. My boat for an example is 159, 191 and 171. Puget sound here in Wa it is 189, BC where shock is, the boat is 192, so I am a bit surprised the slowest rated is 191, unless I forgot that the BC boat is rated at 191. We also for boats rated slower than about 70 or so, artificially lower the base that is supposed to be used by 10%. This is shown to be a better way of comparing the fastest boats to the slower ones when doing overall scoring due to our weather and race conditions. Most races a windward/leeward in winds under 10 knots. So the ToT scoring is recommended the first formula, along with factors have been posted at the PHRF-NW site as such for ToT scoring.

Marty
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Old 09-24-2012
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Re: Race rating (TMF, TCF) for Farr IMS 40.7

PHRF ratings vary because the local committees who issue the handicaps adjust them (theoretically) based on local results, which are affected by local conditions. A really heavy boat with small sails will probably not do well in an area with light wind, such as Chesapeake Bay or Long Island Sound: a light boat with big sails will tend to beat it. The local PHRF handicapping committee takes this into account when they issue a rating. In the North Sea, where 20 knots is a lull, the heavier boat will be much more competitive, as the lighter boat has to reef down, and is stopped when it hits the big waves that the heavier boat simply pushes aside. IRC ignores this obvious fact of sailboat racing by assigning a single rating to any boat, anywhere. It then pretends to be scientific and precise by extending the ratings to four decimal places, despite not actually being capable of being that accurate. (If you multiply what LOOKS like a substantial rating difference of .129 between two boats out by the time or distance involved, it comes out to be a tiiny fraction of seconds over the course of the whole race. The decimal places are meaningless in the actual determination of results. They just look REALLY cool.) Then a secret committee changes the secret IRC rule, and the owners who just spent thousands (or tens of thousands) to optimize their boat find out they can't buy trophies by tweaking the rule - they need to buy a new boat. PHRF tends to be consistently popular over a wider range of racers worldwide because it seems to work reasonably well without enabling those with the deepest pockets to buy trophies at the expense of those who sail well.

Last edited by paulk; 09-24-2012 at 11:05 PM.
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