Silly question... - SailNet Community
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 12-02-2012 Thread Starter
Jim Sanders
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Silly question...

I was faced with the following situation this summer, and am seeking feedback as what to do in a race situation .......
Overtook a boat as we approached the mark
We are both on a starboard tack
I am clear ahead of the other by 15ft
I approach the mark and wish to tack 90 degrees ( rounding the mark) I will in all likelihood not clear the logical path of the boat behind me....(I understand I am required to give two boat lengths if we are overlapped)
In this case I am ahead, but wish to cross in front of the boat astern....

What is my proper course of action?
( and yes I am aware regardless of the rules racing with a hole in your boat will slow you down)

Newer to sailing, and even newer to racing, but already hooked

Thanks,
Jimmy
Jimmy E is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 12-02-2012
Senior Member
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,985
Thanks: 43
Thanked 122 Times in 103 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Dock
Re: Silly question...

As you tack he would then become the overtaking boat. And the overtaking boat must give way.

I would certainly call it loudly so he knows your intentions.

Btw, in a two boat race (match racing) or if you are leading the race, he should tack with you anyway. As a tactic you always cover the leading boat.

Mark

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 13 Old 12-02-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,439
Thanks: 7
Thanked 88 Times in 83 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Silly question...

Jimmy,

I am not sure what the RRS in Canada require. In the US you mixed a couple of terms that don't have a lot of meaning, and I am not sure what you are describing.

In the US:

If you passed a vessel from clear astern, then until you have broken the overlap you have no right of way.

If the overlap was broken within three boat lengths (of the longer vessel) of the mark then you are still the burdened boat.

If the overlap was broken before entering the circle, then it also can't be required once inside the circle

If you had right of way, then you do not have to give room at the mark, and can tack at the mark. The rules don't require it, but in everything but the most aggressive fleets call out to the other boat that they have no rights and you are tacking. This will help to eliminate collisions.

How far will I push it? It really depends. On a Wednesday night beer can race, not very far. But when we were racing for the Lightning North American Championship, I would have happily demanded every inch of my rights. But here every competitor that was in the top of the fleet was also well aware of the situation as it developed, and would be prepared to duck anyway.
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

Greg Rubin
Attorney
Stumble is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 13 Old 12-02-2012
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,555
Thanks: 109
Thanked 316 Times in 302 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Silly question...

Sounds like you weren't the 'inside' boat.. If you were clear ahead on the same course and heading you should be able to tack clear anytime you like.. this sounds like if you'd tacked he was likely to nail you before you finished and scooted out of the way.

Sounds like 'tacking too close' to me, esp since you'd be putting yourself on port tack at the same time...

At the same time you should have the expectation of his tacking as soon as possible for the mark, ie I don't think he could continue to sail on just to keep you from making your rounding.

Caveat: It's been a while and I'm probably not current on the rules these days...

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 13 Old 12-02-2012 Thread Starter
Jim Sanders
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Silly question...

Faster....that does sum it up. I'm that situation do I simply hold my course , waiting for the boat behind me to start his tack and follow suit?

On that day I just couldn't point any higher( without loosing speed) to get directly in front him

Thanks
Jimmy
Jimmy E is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 13 Old 12-03-2012
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 78
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Silly question...

I say if you are not overlapped when you enter the 3 boat length then you do not have to give room for the boat behind you to round the mark. Some things were said above that are not correct. It is when the first boat enters the 3 boat length zone that the presence of overlap is determined (18.2b). Also, you do not have to stay clear of the boat behind you when tacking as you would normally have to do (18.5b). But be careful, if you are starting your tack as you enter the 3 boat length zone, you might create an overlap. The other boat is overlapped with you if she is forward of a line abeam of your stern. That line moves a lot when you change course so it really depends on the details of your heading when you hit the 3 boat length zone.

The rule book is 153 pages long. I copied the sections on when boats meet and the important definitions and it takes up about 5 pages. Those 5 pages answer most of these kind of questions.

When boats meet.
Faster likes this.
allene222 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 13 Old 12-03-2012 Thread Starter
Jim Sanders
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Silly question...

Thanks for the insight... I guess a have a little reading to do this winter.
Jimmy
Jimmy E is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 13 Old 12-03-2012
Senior Member
 
paulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,610
Thanks: 4
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Silly question...

Fuzzy details on the setup here. We don't know how big the boats are, and it appears that you were rounding a windward mark to starboard. Your description of not being able to tack for the mark for fear of getting hit makes it sound like though you may have been clear ahead of the other boat by 15', you were to leeward of him. Your understanding of "giving two boat lengths if we are overlapped" is incorrect. The Racing Rules of Sailing are the same everywhere, worldwide, and are available on the ISAF and USSailing websites. Read rule 18. It states essentially that when two boats are overlapped at a point THREE boatlengths from the mark, the INSIDE boat is entitled to enough room to get around the mark. It sounds like you must have been the outside boat in this situation, but we don't know how far away either boat was from the mark. If you had wanted to tack, you could have, but you would have needed to duck the stern of the other boat in order to avoid any Port/Starboard issues. Race committees often try to make sure marks are left to port, rather than starboard, to avoid the problem you encountered: boats on the layline on port tack being disrupted by others approaching on starboard.
Faster likes this.
paulk is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 13 Old 12-05-2012
Senior Member
 
L124C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,441
Thanks: 61
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Silly question...

No such thing as a "Silly Question", especially when it comes to the confusing, complex rules of racing. However, there are silly, nondescript titles that give the reader no idea what your thread is about, or if it interests them. Your's is a prime example.
How about "racing rules" "rounding rights". Please, give me a hint!
L124C is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 13 Old 12-06-2012 Thread Starter
Jim Sanders
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: London Ontario
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Silly question...

L124C.....point taken , and with my 20/20 hindsight , I fully agree.
Is the title" new guy getting schooled by the old boys, one race at a time, but still hanging in there, even though the Admiral is asking too many questions while he figures it out on the fly, avoiding collisions , but still trying to improve his times, while the aforementioned old boys take turns playing with him like a cat chasing a spot light?"
I'll do better next time , thanks
Jimmy
Jimmy E is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
silly question about roller furling rmeador Learning to Sail 4 05-11-2010 09:29 AM
Silly question . . . mwrohde General Discussion (sailing related) 13 06-18-2008 07:49 PM
Silly question CaseyJones General Discussion (sailing related) 2 09-20-2007 01:13 PM
Silly newbie question... thomaskennedy Learning to Sail 21 04-15-2007 12:52 AM
Silly question, I know.... ct General Discussion (sailing related) 17 07-05-2003 09:18 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome