Proper Course - SailNet Community
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 7 Old 06-11-2004 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 17
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Proper Course

Can someone clarify the meaning of proper course. One boat is trying to prevent another from passing, he starts to head up while on a close reach. At what point is he not sailing the proper course? There seems to be a tremendous amount of gray area, increasing exponentially the farthur from the mark to boats are.
dmurcott is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 Old 06-11-2004
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 52
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Proper Course

Proper Course: A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence
of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term. A boat has no proper course
before her starting signal.

That''s the RRS definition, but that shouldn''t be taken to mean that there is a proscription on a boat to sail that course. There are a few rules that use the definition, but generally, there isn''t a rule that says a boat must sail a proper course.

In your specific case, if a boat establishes an ovelap to leeward from behind, she can''t then luff the windward boat. But if a boat overtakes to windward, the leeward boat can luff her without limit, provided she gives the windward boat ''room'' to ''keep clear'' (which are two more defined terms in the rulebook).

As your note implies, there are more cases when proper course becomes relevant at mark roundings, as when otherwise burdened boats establish inside overlaps, and can not then use their rights to room at the mark to prevent outside boats from also rounding reasonably.

Crystal clear, right?
dpboatnut is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 7 Old 06-11-2004
Senior Member
 
paulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: CT/ Long Island Sound
Posts: 2,602
Thanks: 4
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Proper Course

Not even as clear as that! If a boat comes up on a boat from behind (within two boatlengths of the windward boat) , the windward boat must still keep clear, and I believe the leeward boat can go up to close hauled IF THAT IS HER PROPER COURSE. This happened to us on a reaching leg where we were heading higher (and going faster) than a boat to windward of us. We became overlapped with us to leeward and we pinched him off despite his loud and repeated calls for us to "go to your proper course." The fact that we were passing the windward boat made it clear to the arbitrator (our club avoids protests by using an arbitrator) that the higher heading we were on WAS INDEED our proper course. Many people think "proper course" is the direct line, compass course to the next mark. This is NOT the case. Even these people would agree that if the current was carrying you to the side, you''d have to adjust your heading to compensate-- and thus your "proper course" could be different from another boat that has more leeway than yours. Add different factors for windward and reaching ability, and "proper course" becomes a very vague term.
paulk is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 7 Old 06-14-2004
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New England USA
Posts: 261
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 13
 
Proper Course

Hmmmm... Different interpretation. "Proper Course" referes to the course you would have to travel to go directly to the next observed mark, regardless of weather or not you could actually sail to that course. A weather mark comes to mind, but it really comes into play down wind.

Off the wind, you will usually be taking down wind if the rum line is dead down wind. You will then come into overlap and luffing situations with other vessels. You can bring some one up, given the satisfaction of the ovelap rules, TO THE POINT YOU CAN GO DIRECTLY TO MARK... your "Proper Course" and no more.
In any situation where you are trying to head someone up... you can only force them up to YOUR "Proper Course", too bad if they do not perform as well as you.
When reaching with a chute to the next mark, they may not be able to carry and you can. You can have your way with the windward boat until you reach your "Proper Course" and not any further.
Or you may be under genoa or jib and you want to force the boat with the chute trying to roll you up to luff, but you can only go up to your "Proper Course"

Silmaril is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 7 Old 06-14-2004
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 140
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Proper Course

Ooh, a rules question!

DPBoatnut is correct, it all depends on how the overlap is established. Whether you are sailing upwind to the windward mark or reaching/running to leeward mark, if you overtake a boat on the leeward side (leaving them to weather), you cannot sail above proper course once the overlap is established. If, however, you are "rolling" another boat by passing to weather, they can bring you up to head to wind. And DP has also given the correct definition of proper course, which as PaulK points out, might not be the course your competitor is sailing or expects you to sail.

Allen Flanigan
Alexandria, VA
aflanigan is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 7 Old 06-14-2004
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 52
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Proper Course

Like the original question, perhaps someone can help me understand another issue related to proper course:

The Sailing Instructions for the Newport-Ensenada race contain the phrase "The jury will use 138 degrees magnetic for the purpose of determining proper course at the start". Background: 138 is the rumb-line course to finish, but everybody starts going much more close-hauled, say around 180, with the wind form somewhere in the southwest to west.

So, if the RRS says there is no proper course before the start, and afterward, a boat overtaking to leeward would want to sail much higher than 138 as her proper course, how is this Instruction justified or explained? Have they effectively amended the RRS to include a proper course at the start, where the RRS contains none?

-Chad
dpboatnut is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 7 Old 06-14-2004
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 119
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Proper Course

dpboatnut:

''Proper Course'' is a Definition which according to RR 86.1b cannot be changed by the Sailing Instructions. At least that is the way I read it.

Regards, George
geohan is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another proper course question langousta Racing 11 12-27-2005 05:33 AM
yet more proper course questions dpboatnut Racing 7 09-29-2004 07:41 AM
Above Proper Course MemphisMud General Discussion (sailing related) 4 10-15-2002 09:43 AM
What is the proper way to christen a boat hervel General Discussion (sailing related) 0 09-28-2001 05:32 AM
Proper Prop size for Cat 30 gfeier Gear & Maintenance 0 08-20-2001 04:52 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome