AC 72 crashes, 1 dead - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 26 Old 05-13-2013
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Re: AC 72 crashes, 1 dead

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Are you kidding me? Name calling those that would suggest it should be safer? Someone lost their loved one to a sport that didn't give him any choice whatsoever. This is evidenced by all those that are so enamored by the idea of being aboard an AC racer and going fast, they would accept whatever risk presented. Give his family a call and let them know you think we're namby pambys, if you have the power of your conviction.

Yes, it should be safer. That doesn't require an absolute. I fully reject that the paid crew has any more choice than a factory worker in a dangerous factory. These men aspire to be AC racing crew and have no choice but to accept whatever risk the previous winner decides the next race is going to take. Mitigating this risk to a level where it's not so obvious that people with continue to be hurt or killed is human. There is no need to return to genteel days to do it.

'm sure you did your NASCAR laps without a helmet or any other safety features, because you're no namby pamby.

An emotional outburst followed by a personal chiding , ridiculing, or lecturing...getting to be the norm Minnie. Your replies to me in posts seem personal as of late and not necessary. Please refrain

I haven't seen anyone of the AC racers or crews calling for any mega increased safety measures or blame the sport for the lack thereof. The factory worker analogy doesn't make sense. The Skippers and trimmers are compensated at over six figures from what I have been led to believe. That doesn't really make a difference on Safety really. It is inherently a dangerous venture

That doesn't mean I said to ignore the subject. It is an dangerous sport and greater risks are assumed if one participates. Loads on sails, speed pushing to the limit are art of this.

You illustration of going for NO safety measures is a bit of an overreaction to my post.

I didn't say go without helmets or that no safety measures should be employed and used. Of course they should. They should make the AC racers as safe as possible and employee all current measures to do that.
An illustration of that is just what they have done having them wear the extra oxygen which was a results of what they learned in a previous crash. I believed they are committed to continually improve personal safety. In NASCAR it took them years to use the HANS device and employ safer barriers. It took years to used safer fuel cells, roof flaps to prevent rollovers and restrictor plates at the Superspeedways/

This is an evolving sport and boat testing the limits is not unlike other sports doing the same It is the cutting edge of its technology and innovations as well as safety may be spun off of it just as it is in NASCAR cars.

While I too appreciate the beauty of the older mono-hulls and have sailed on Australia II in Maui, Stars and Stripes in both San Diego and in Narraganset Bay, I know that the AC races have utilized many differing formulas for their competition dating back many years, Changing the Americas Cup calling for it to go back to the genteel days of the 12 meter boats will not stop the continued development of these super cats.

As I mentioned before in this and other posts where there was a loss of life, human life is precious. A member of our sailing community even closer to home.

God bless Andrew Simpson and his family. May he find fair winds and following seas in heaven


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post #22 of 26 Old 05-13-2013
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Re: AC 72 crashes, 1 dead

Interesting article from Oracles first crash posted on SA. Evidently the practice man overboard and emergency procedures quite a lot



The Boat That Could Sink the America's Cup | Autopia | Wired.com
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Re: AC 72 crashes, 1 dead

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
An emotional outburst followed by a personal chiding , ridiculing, or lecturing...getting to be the norm Minnie. Your replies to me in posts seem personal as of late and not necessary. Please refrain

....
I would ask the same. I don't recall name calling or making snide comments as you've seen to. Sorry if we see things differently, I suspect we often will. Hard to assess emotions in a post, but easy to read name calling.

Truce.


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Re: AC 72 crashes, 1 dead

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I would ask the same. I don't recall name calling or making snide comments as you've seen to. Sorry if we see things differently, I suspect we often will. Hard to assess emotions in a post, but easy to read name calling.

Truce.
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post #25 of 26 Old 05-13-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: AC 72 crashes, 1 dead

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My point seems to be misunderstood. I'm not suggesting that they engineer a boat that won't pitch pole. I would insist that they engineer one that would not do so catastrophically, therefore, reducing its potential to kill someone. Air bags, crush zones, better gas mileage, etc, were only engineered upon insistence. Someone pushed back on each as unnecessary or impossible.
It seems that the problem with the Artemis boat is that it did self destruct catastrophically.
I think examination will determine that it had structural defiances.
The 45's pitch poled on a regular basis, and usually could sail away from the incident. Most that didn't were repaired and ready to sail the next day. Check out the video link below which is a compilation of 45 and 72 cat capsizes (I suggest mute to avoid the irritating music!). The Oracle 72 (AC 17) capsize is 5 minutes into the video.
AC 17 seemed to basically survive it's pitch pole (in stronger conditions than the Artemis incident), only to have the wing destroyed after it sank in the strong current. One of the hulls ruptured after hours of having powerful boats tugging on it, attempting to recover the cat, as it drifted out the Gate in a strong ebb tide. No one was hurt in any of those incidents to my knowledge.
If you look at the videos, the hulls are completely vertical and almost motionless for a while as sailors cling to the net like spiders. Then, sometimes someone looses their grip and goes swimming (or goes through the wing!). The incidents actually appear rather graceful, becuause the boats de-power so quickly. After the capsize, the only parts of the boat in the water are one hull, and the top of the wing. With the exception of the "Muscat" capsize 20 seconds into the video...MAN that was ugly!
It's speculation at this point, but it seems to me the Artemis boat probably never got close to vertical, but simply started coming apart, possibly while still moving at a good clip, creating a lot of debris in the water for Simpson to get trapped under.

Last edited by L124C; 05-14-2013 at 03:47 AM.
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Re: AC 72 crashes, 1 dead

As I recall, the air tanks were provided from the begining on the 72's.
This video was shot after AC 17 pitch poled, and it shows they were certainly not being cavalier about safety. One of the sailors says; "We were fortunate no one was hurt this time. We can't assume that will always be the case".
Another says: "The drills were fun, but were also sobering. They drive home that what we do is pretty dangerous".

Last edited by L124C; 05-14-2013 at 03:22 AM.
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