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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction
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  #31  
Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Hard Chines

Out:
I think you are spot on.
For every condition and every type of boat there is an ideal shape. But we don't sail in a world with one "ideal" condition. One day it's upwind and the nexct day its downwind. The designer has to balance the desirable and undesirable characteristics of each type to come up with a good all round performer within the type. The best shape for a heavy boat will not be the best shape for a light boat. The best shape for a high powered boat will not be the best shape for a boat with a modest rig.

One can only dream it was that easy.
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  #32  
Old 02-03-2014
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Re: Hard Chines

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobperry View Post
......
When a design feature becomes "fashionable", i.e. the spoiler on the Toyota, it's easy to find reasons why it make sense and is a worthwhile feature. None the less the choice of this feature is first driven by fashion. Of course the spoiler on the Toyota works. To a degree it works. Does it make the Toyota a better car? No. It's still a Toyota. It's just heavier now.

Maybe some day in the future we'll look back and say, "Remember when we put chines on boats?" I've sailed under CCA, PHRF and IOR. I have seen a lot of features we thought made sense come and go. They seem right at the time.
..
Not sure if I understand that Toyoata story I have one, a fast one and light (950kg) but with no spoiler

Regarding rating formulas they have nothing to do with this. Whit rating formulas you have to design boats that work for a given formula and can beat the rating. The formula has a big influence on the boat shape that in most of the cases is not as fast as it could be if was not designed to rate well.

With Open boats that's very different since the design is oriented to speed under some broad guidelines. It is even more free in what regards one class boats like the Farr 400 whose main objective is not to rate well but to be as fast as possible.

Regards

Paulo
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  #33  
Old 02-04-2014
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Re: Hard Chines

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Not sure if I understand that Toyoata story I have one, a fast one and light (950kg) but with no spoiler

Regarding rating formulas they have nothing to do with this. Whit rating formulas you have to design boats that work for a given formula and can beat the rating. The formula has a big influence on the boat shape that in most of the cases is not as fast as it could be if was not designed to rate well.

With Open boats that's very different since the design is oriented to speed under some broad guidelines. It is even more free in what regards one class boats like the Farr 400 whose main objective is not to rate well but to be as fast as possible.

Regards

Paulo
It's pretty simple Paulo - production boats largely follow racing boats in terms of styling features. Look at the production boats in the IOR years - they largely had pointy sterns and big foretriangles even though that isn't great for cruising sailors - it was the fashion. In the CCA years they had long overhangs and squatty rigs with huge genoas - the style of the then current race boats.

Now it's no overhangs, wide sterns and chines because that's what the current race boats have. In the latest case it works better for cruisers than the IOR shape but it is no less fashion driven.
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  #34  
Old 02-04-2014
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Re: Hard Chines

I was not implying that rating formulae have anything to do with Mom and Pop chine boats. I was implying that some features make sense at a point in time when over time they are proven to be worthless or even detrimental. I have designed boats to several rules I am very familiar with how rating rules work.

The Toyota spoiler example I used to show that while in reality the spoiler on the little Toyota is usless and just adds weight they put it there anyway. Why? Marketing. Fashion!

On some of te Mom and Pop chine boats you post I woud be you that if I took
(hypothetically) a big disc grinder and ground off chines you would not be able to tell the difference in feel or performance. I would not say that about all chine boats. I try not to generalize.

But for some markets fashion is very important and in some cases I think this accounts for the chines.
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