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Old 01-31-2014
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Hard Chines

I have been seeing a number of sailboats with hard chines. What are the advantages or disadvantages of hard chines?
I can see where longitudinal strength may be increased but what about sailing characteristics. It would seem to make the boat stiffer but I'd love to hear from someone who knows a little about design.
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Re: Hard Chines

Have you been following the 'Interesting Sailboats' thread? Plenty of discussion on all the 'new' designs, many of which have varying degrees of the chine approach.

Must be something to them, the chines are working their way forward recently.. but for me it's hard to imagine that the vestigial 'chine' that you see on some Jeanneaus, e.g., would make much of a difference.. Paulo (PCP) will disagree with me on this..l.

However, chines don't seem to be fading.. at the same time you see designs like those by Ker, and the Sydney line, that seem to go the opposite way with narrower WLB aft and strong topsides flare in the aft quarter sections - a very different look.
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Re: Hard Chines

Hard chines are a plus on shallow draft boats if I'm m not mistaken.
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Re: Hard Chines

Thanks Faster I will take a look at that thread. I agree I dont see where some chines will make any difference
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Re: Hard Chines

Hard chines like the good 'ol Thunderbird obviously put reserve bouyancy into the water when immersed.. and some of the more pronounced chines seen on some of the latest boats are more along those lines and then some with the pronounced beam aft and the 'wedge' shape.. The newer Hunters are more 'T Birdy' than the Jeanneaus, esp when seen out of the water.

Like wing keels, plumb stems, 'wave piercing' bows etc, in some cases one has to ask 'fad or function'?....

I'd love to hear BP's take on comparing, say, the chines on the Jeanneau 379 vs the RM boats and some other more extreme European designs.
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Re: Hard Chines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Have you been following the 'Interesting Sailboats' thread? Plenty of discussion on all the 'new' designs, many of which have varying degrees of the chine approach.

Must be something to them, the chines are working their way forward recently.. but for me it's hard to imagine that the vestigial 'chine' that you see on some Jeanneaus, e.g., would make much of a difference.. Paulo (PCP) will disagree with me on this..l.

...
Of course ....and there are things that are objective, not a matter of opinion: The chines on the Jeanneau are not vestigial. Are as marked as in some racing sailing boats.





I believe that on the Jeanneau they don't have to do mostly with speed but with making sailing easier maintaining the boat upwind in a grove at the more efficient heeling angle and making downwind sailing easier, limiting roll.

They are also used by Benetau and several other brands, in fact I should have said, other designers. Jeanneau are designed by Marc Lombard, many other designers use them, principally the ones that also design solo racing boats were the chines were developed as a way to make the sailing more easy for the solo sailor and that way increasing performance.




Regards

Paulo
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Re: Hard Chines

Fast mentions the Thunderbird ..... I have always been under the impression that hard chines as per the TBird were simply to make it easier and cheaper for the home builder. Our old VDS34 was multi chine in steel. Other VDS34s in cold moulded timber or glass were round bilge.

Still and all I'm guessing the OP was talking about the chines apparent on more modern designs such as the Jeanneau Paulo posted rather than antiques like the TBird or VDS34.
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Re: Hard Chines

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Fast mentions the Thunderbird ..... I have always been under the impression that hard chines as per the TBird were simply to make it easier and cheaper for the home builder. Our old VDS34 was multi chine in steel. Other VDS34s in cold moulded timber or glass were round bilge.

Still and all I'm guessing the OP was talking about the chines apparent on more modern designs such as the Jeanneau Paulo posted rather than antiques like the TBird or VDS34.
I think you're right (twice!! in one post! )

Interestingly the other day I saw a new H40 out on the hard and my first thought was 'big Tbird'...
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Re: Hard Chines

Do not generalize about chines.
Do not assume they are doing the same thing on different boats.
The chines on a lightweight flyer and not there for the same reason they are on a Bentaeu mom and pop boat.

On some boats chines are for performance.
On other boats chines are for volume and have almost zero effect on performance. They look trendy and fool some people.
On some boats chines are as effective as a spoiler on the trunk lid of an old Toyota.
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Re: Hard Chines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
I think you're right (twice!! in one post! )

Interestingly the other day I saw a new H40 out on the hard and my first thought was 'big Tbird'...
Our first "real" boat was a 1957 era home built T-Bird 26 (I still have the complete set of her plans) on which we had to add a 500# lead "shoe" to make her suitable for sailing on SF Bay. Once she heeled down to her chine she just refused to go any farther and went like a scalded cat. For all intents and purposes, the first nearly "ULDB". Great boats. Designed by Ben Seaborne for the Western Wood Products Association at the end of WWII in the WWPA's effort to find applications for plywood. We sailed that boat all over heck's half acre relying on a "bucket" head, Primus stove (for cooking), oil lamps for light/heat, and scratchy old WWII surplus wool Army blankets for berthing. Several of our friends from those daze that haven't yet died still have their boats. The famous old TransPac flyer "Ragtime" was naught but an up-sized T-Bird.

FWIW...
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Last edited by svHyLyte; 01-31-2014 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Correct typo's
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