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  #1  
Old 06-19-2014
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Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

My 1985 Nauticat 40 Ketch has 2 headstays that are quite close together. I'm wondering if she is designed to be sailed in moderate conditions with both headsails flying, or if she is more in the tradition of a "double headsail rig" whereby you choose one, or the other sail depending on conditions.

The staysail goes from the stem, to the hounds at the upper spreaders. The foresail goes from the bowsprit to the masthead. The slot between these two stays is 2-3 feet only, which makes tacking a genoa quite challenging.

If the boat is designed to be sailed in an either-or configuration I could change the staysail to be removable with a hayfield lever, but the staysail is on a furlex furler, and that seems to be adding complexity.

Does anyone know how she was intended to be sailed?
NAUTICAT 40 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


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Old 06-19-2014
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Re: Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

In theory you could so long as your sheet leads and turning blocks are set up for twin leads. In practice, however...? Check your sail inventory. You may find a hank on Drifter that one would use in very light air with the stay sail furled. You might find better answers at the Nauticat Owners Forum.

PS: Time to change your "Logo" no?
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Old 06-19-2014
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Re: Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post

PS: Time to change your "Logo" no?
Agreed!

A drifter on the headstay would be good if we did outside gybes. I've got some ideas for how to make it work but I want to see what the designers had in mind (and try that) first. They are often smart folks.....

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Old 06-19-2014
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Re: Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
My 1985 Nauticat 40 Ketch has 2 headstays that are quite close together. I'm wondering if she is designed to be sailed in moderate conditions with both headsails flying, or if she is more in the tradition of a "double headsail rig" whereby you choose one, or the other sail depending on conditions.

The staysail goes from the stem, to the hounds at the upper spreaders. The foresail goes from the bowsprit to the masthead. The slot between these two stays is 2-3 feet only, which makes tacking a genoa quite challenging.

If the boat is designed to be sailed in an either-or configuration I could change the staysail to be removable with a hayfield lever, but the staysail is on a furlex furler, and that seems to be adding complexity.

Does anyone know how she was intended to be sailed?
NAUTICAT 40 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com


Thanks!
MedSailor
Looks like a pretty conventional cutter foretriangle, to me... Sailing with both can work nicely on a reach, but that's about it, flying both headsail and staysail is not fast going to weather. Perhaps Rich H will weigh in here, his understanding of cutter rigs can't be beat...

I like having my staysail on a furler, but you really want to try to configure a way to stow it back at the shrouds if possible. No telling from that diagram whether the boat has the sheer to be able to do that, without perhaps shortening the furler. Making the inner forestay stowable doesn't add "complexity", but always having to tack your headsail thru that slot certainly does :-) Very often, your only options are to either partially furl the headsail with each tack, or to unfurl the staysail, in which case the jib will get backed against the staysail, but slide through the slot a bit more easily, rather than getting hung up on the inner forestay...

If you're thinking of light air sail, don't think "drifter" (does any sailmaker actually make a "drifter" any more?), but rather some sort of Code 0 or asymetrical... One of the better investments one can make on any boat that might need some extra horsepower in the lighter stuff...

Is that diagram true to scale? Hell, that mizzen has to be one of the highest-aspect sails I've ever seen, folks are gonna think you've got a wing sail on that thing... :-)

Last edited by JonEisberg; 06-19-2014 at 04:44 PM.
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Re: Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Making the inner forestay stowable doesn't add "complexity", but always having to tack your headsail thru that slot certainly does :-)
Good point.

I think staysails on furlers are a good idea as well, though I imagined a continuous line furler. The "complexity" I'm imagining is moving the entire drum and foil arrangement and also running the furling line.

Is your staysail furler on a hayfield lever? How do you run your furling line if the drum moves?

As for the mizzen, I noticed that in the drawing. I didn't get to see the mizzen in action during the trial sail because the selling broker (a power boat guy) didn't figure we needed to use it so it wasn't rigged at all and we were pressed for time. If it is as high aspect as that, I may be tempted to add something roachy when I get a new mizzen built. Perhaps a 6" headboard and several battens, or a square top. There's no backstays to contend with, so why not right?

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Old 06-21-2014
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Re: Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

Tacking a genoa around an inner forestay is a genuine pita. Furl it in for each tack. If the inner forestay isn't necessary for mast support (it may be) and you're putting a genny up front, I would remove it, until I planned to go offshore. Our inner forestay is wound up in a cockpit locker and it's never come out yet.
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Re: Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Good point.

I think staysails on furlers are a good idea as well, though I imagined a continuous line furler. The "complexity" I'm imagining is moving the entire drum and foil arrangement and also running the furling line.

Is your staysail furler on a hayfield lever? How do you run your furling line if the drum moves?
I use a Wichard tensioner with a pelican hook, but have the advantage of a considerable amount of crown to my deck, and a lot of sheer, so I can just barely make the geometry work... On many of today's boats with a flatter sheer, you'd have to elevate the bottom of the furler above the deck a bit more than normal to be able to bring it aft. I simply remove the furling line, all it takes is untying a stopper knot on a Profurl, after all :-)

Here's a pic of it stowed back by the shrouds:





Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
As for the mizzen, I noticed that in the drawing. I didn't get to see the mizzen in action during the trial sail because the selling broker (a power boat guy) didn't figure we needed to use it so it wasn't rigged at all and we were pressed for time. If it is as high aspect as that, I may be tempted to add something roachy when I get a new mizzen built. Perhaps a 6" headboard and several battens, or a square top. There's no backstays to contend with, so why not right?

MedSailor
Well, a motorsailer with a both a sauna, and a square-top mizzen, that will make your boat truly unique, indeed :-)

Not a bad idea, however... Seems you'd definitely want to go with a full-battened mizzen with plenty of roach, at least...
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Old 06-21-2014
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Re: Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

Good general discussion. Try the folks that are likely to know the specifics of your boat best: Let me google that for you
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Old 06-22-2014
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Re: Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

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Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
Good general discussion. Try the folks that are likely to know the specifics of your boat best: Let me google that for you
*Thanks* for that neat trick. Do you think the google can be used to find out other things??

I'm a member of the NC owner's association. Very friendly and helpful group, but also a very low traffic list. The hottest topic might get 6-7 replies. 0-3 is about standard. My question got "0". The association and it's archives were very useful however, in data-mining previous owner's maintenance habits on boats I was attempting to buy. I found out about an insurance claim that had not been disclosed on one candidate, and I found out which POs asked questions like "do you think I can get away with...." vs the ones who would say "I'm going to replace this before it's needed, do you know where to find..."

Your reply did spark one of my brain cells to fire though. Why not ask those who know the most about my boat? Yes! Brilliant! I can email/call the Nauticat Yard in Finland. Apparently they're very helpful. They keep a file on every hull# they've ever built and just the other day sent someone a complete wiring diagram to their boat that was built in the early 1990s.

I'll see what they have to say, but I'm also thinking that I'll end up doing what I want with the rig. A good point to ask if the staysail stay helps hold up the mast (which I doubt) but short of that, I'll likely be modifying things. Still, if I modify, I'd be nice to know how far from the designer's intentions I am getting.

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Old 06-22-2014
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Re: Is my boat designed to use both headsails or one at at time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
*Thanks* for that neat trick. Do you think the google can be used to find out other things??
I hope you weren't offended. That wasn't my intent - I was in a hurry and it's convenient. *grin*

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
I'm a member of the NC owner's association. Very friendly and helpful group, but also a very low traffic list.
I understand. The Yahoo HR list is a bit like that also (maybe 40 posts a week) but the expertise is outstanding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Your reply did spark one of my brain cells to fire though. Why not ask those who know the most about my boat? Yes! Brilliant! I can email/call the Nauticat Yard in Finland. Apparently they're very helpful. They keep a file on every hull# they've ever built and just the other day sent someone a complete wiring diagram to their boat that was built in the early 1990s.
I don't know the Nauticat community but perhaps my experience with HRs is relevant. There may be a couple of people at the factory that really do customer outreach. E-mail works great across time zones. There may well be a couple of owners that "own" the brand and know a lot themselves and know where to find out what they don't know. In addition there are likely to be brokers (like Bill Adams and Bernie Jackits for HR) that are fonts of information. If you build relationships in the community you can learn a lot.

Best of luck, dave
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