SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Steel vs Fiberglass

329K views 3K replies 112 participants last post by  luigifr 
#1 ·
I'm looking at an old, steel cruising sailboat. I've only owner fiberglass boats in the past, but thought the steel may be more durable, easy to repair at far-off destinations and possibly little safer.

Thoughts?
 
#282 · (Edited)
Calm down Brent.

I have no interest in steel boats at all, none. I pose no threat to you in your "low budget cruiser" world. I prefer the high budget world so that my boats ca be beautifully executed. Nobody ever said yachting was cheap. You see Brent, there is plenty of room for your way and according to CRUISING WORLD's 41 best production boats poll, lots of room for my way. There simply is no competition here. I can't understand while you react like you are threatened.

Why don't you stop talking and start posing examples of your work. What are you hiding? I've established myself and I feel good about it and I'm happy to show my work. How about showing me a 30 year old BS boat that looks like my blue Aloha?

In fact it has worked extremely well doing it my way. I get the impression you think your words can alter history? Odd.

Here's another 30 year old boat (actually at least 35 years old) looking as good as new. They built 350 of these.
 
#287 ·
Bob, I am having a hard time uploading new photos for some reason. Here's a view of my swing keel Clearwater 35 taken at the end of our sailing season, hence the sails are missing.


BTW, the artist was visiting Mystic from California. I don't think he painted any steel boats when he was in the area.:wink

My boat is the last of 7 Clearwater 35s, which were built by Holby Marine in Bristol, RI. Holby also offered a Clearwater 36 which was available with fixed keel or keel/CB. The shallower C36 version drew 3' 8" vs. 1' 10" for the C35 with keel and rudder retracted as shown in the second photo.



It has been 19 years since we sailed her the 1700 miles or so from Clearwater, FL, to Mystic, including a 600 mi. offshore passage in 72 hrs under sail. (Well, maybe the Gulf Stream had something to do with that!) She is fairly responsive and goes to weather with the best of them. Craig Walters did a good job on this smaller sibling of the Seguin 40.
 
#285 · (Edited)
I have built several fibreglass boats with my own hands, and done major repairs on others, not simply giving directions to others ( in my mispent youth).
Will, a friend, died from cancer he believes was caused my working with fibreglass for too long.
NO thanks!
I doubt Bob has built any with his own hands.
 
#286 ·
No Brent I have never had to. I'm a designer, not a builder. You are a little slow figuring that out. You can find me in the ENCYCLOPEDIA OF YACHT DESIGNERS.
How many boats did Olin Stephens build? Phil Rhodes? Bill Tripp, Bruce Farr? German Frers?
Ok, here is some more reality. I'll dig deep for this one.
Here is the CT 56. After building 100 C T 54's, my first GRP design, the yard decided to retire the old molds and come out with a new model. The CT 56 is the result, a better performer than the 54.


Then we did the CT 65 aka SCORPIO 72. We built 30 of these. They are great boats. Maestro Vladimir Ashkenazy owns one. Just big GRP boats that keep going and going while looking great.
 
#288 ·
fallard:
That is one sweet boat!
Every once and a while I see a boat and I think, "I wish I had designed that." Yours is one of those.

My buddy is JB front Frontstreet Boatyard in Maine. He used to be the foreman for Lymann-Morse. He knows quality boats. He has had his for many years and loves it. Silly grp boat that it is. Walters was a very good designer. Shame that he got sick and quit designing.
 
#292 · (Edited)
Ed did nice work, and did things well.
Any idea of the price tag on that one? Enough for several of us to retire in comfort, and cruise the rest of our lives on, ( or spend the rest of our lives working to pay for it?)

Nice side decks on that Clearwater 35. Sadly, very rare on stock plastic boats.
 
#295 ·
Agent:
My pleasure. I like to "show off: what I have done. It's pretty much, besides my beautiful family, all I have to show off. Let me know if you need any help with your search. I'll give you a consultation freebie on account of your so polite.

I just got back from the Betts boat yard. I have a lot of photos. It was an exciting day. Literally "all hands on deck" for the laminating process. Including Jim Betts. I'll organize my photos and post a few for some boat building reality.
 
#297 · (Edited)
Fun day at the boat yard. Real people doing real things and me watching them. Here is a pic of the plug covered in Taconic film that is the barrier coat that prevents the hull lam rsin from bleeding back into the plug.



The trailing edge of the keel is now bonded on with carbon. The plastic you see is the beginnings of the vacuum bag that has to be ready and in place the moment the last carbon pass is on. This pic shows the last of the Taconic film being applied before the "peel ply" layer. The peel ply will make it easy (prayers) to get the hull off the plug and this layer will stay in the boat until it is removed later. Nothing sticks to it so you cannot leave it in the hull.

With Taconic film and, peel ply in place the first layer of carbon goes on, lapping over the bottom of the keel and up the other side 4". The total thickness of the laminate at the bottom of gthe keel will be 1.25" of solid carbon and e glass.

No BS, just high quality custom boat building. Maybe not Boeing level high tech but not bad for Anacortes. I was impressed by the teamwork and skill shown. I am very confident. I felt quite humble as I left today seeing those guys working that way and knowing that we are producing a fabulous boat. Without that crew I'd be lost.
 
#299 ·
Thanks, Bob.. Appreciate seeing it...

Are they going to do the whole layup in one shot?

How much time to they have to work until it kicks?

Kind of cool and cloudy here today.. were the doors open, or do they control temperature?

Is that 0,90, +45, -45 carbon matting?

and the crazy one..

How wide is the roll of matting?
 
#300 · (Edited)
Denda:
The first layer is 0-90.
Did not ask how much time they had but all the panels were cut and stacked and the bag was all ready to go. I think the plan was to have the inner skin layer on the keel fin complete today.
They had the big door open and fans running. I'd guess it was maybe 75 degs in the shop. Maybe a bit less. I was not hot. I was not cold.

I'll guess the width of the roll is between 44" and 48" I did not measure.
No, they are not doing the entire layup in one shot. They do half the hull on Tuesday and the other half on Thursday.

We should meet at the yard some day.
 
#318 · (Edited)
Denda:

We should meet at the yard some day.
I would be delighted to. Summer cruising plans will definitely include Anacortes, although they just went a little sideways due to some other composite structure requirements. Once I get things settled, I will try and figure out what I can pull off. Life is beyond busy right now. Will definitely be doing the Northern Century race again this year, which starts from Anacortes on August 21st.. I expect they will still be laying up your boats then?
 
#303 ·
As I've pointed out before unless someone complains it is quite possible for slander to pass unnoticed. I'd not seen that post before but having done so it has been edited.
 
#305 · (Edited)
I don't care what you have edited a week later! Hello?Wake up! But you talk one game and you play another I can deal with BS. I'll paraphrase here, I don't need no stinkin' moderator help. It's all entertainment to me.

I can do a wide variety of boats. Am I lovable? Nope and I don't give a rat's ass. I do good work, my dog likes me, my clients put up with me and that's all that counts. Just watch.
 
#306 ·
I don't care what you have edited a week later! Hello?Wake up! But you talk one game and you play another I can deal with BS. I'll paraphrase here, I don't need no stinkin' moderator help. It's all entertainment to me.
You expect me/us to read every bloody post in every bloody thread and then somehow guess your wishes ?

We have left this thread largely unmoderated. You had a whinge when we previously moderated Brent and sent him on vacation, then you whinge that a post was left unmoderated and now you say you don't need my smelly self at all. FFS man, make up your mind.
 
#307 ·
Holy cow tdw relax. I really don't care what you do. Not at all. But don't pretend to do something that you don't do. Moderate or don't. Hell, you are just like BS. All talk.

I am fine without any moderators. I am a big boy, I can handle myself. I sure as hell do not need you to tell me what I can and cannot say.
My comment was made to show that your "moderating" is very subjective and irregular.
Leave BS here. He's my chew bone. I don't want him censored.

It's the junior soccer judicial committee all over again.
 
#309 ·
If you have the chance to have some work done and the two choices for the contractor are an ******* and a nice guy, always hire the *******. He's in business in spite of how much people hate him. He must be good. The nice guy could do a piss poor job but get by because he's a nice guy. Not naming names or anything........

goat
 
#310 · (Edited)
Goat: That 's good Thank you. I am certainly not going to win a personality contest. Not even going to try. But my dog and my cat think I'm a good guy and I can design one hell of a good boat. That I know.

I would like to contribute here and present current work that I think is important in the world of yacht design and building. No, correct that. I KNOW is important. It's stuff I think you should see. It's not words, it's boats. It's about the boat and not about me. It's not abut bull ****. It's about reality. I show more of the process than any other designer. BS can't post drawings. BS won't post pics. I'll post anything you want. You name the drawing and I'll post it. I have zero to fear and a lot to be proud of. I love to show the process at work. No one else does this. I like to do it. I have no idea why it involves personal attacks on me and my family. This reaction is something very unique to BS. I have great relationships with a lot of other designers.

They are boats! Boats, that's all in all their beautiful varieties.
 
#356 ·
Goat: That 's good Thank you. I am certainly not going to win a personality contest. Not even going to try. But my dog and my cat think I'm a good guy and I can design one hell of a good boat. That I know.

I would like to contribute here and present current work that I think is important in the world of yacht design and building. No, correct that. I KNOW is important. It's stuff I think you should see. It's not words, it's boats. It's about the boat and not about me. It's not abut bull ****. It's about reality. I show more of the process than any other designer. BS can't post drawings. BS won't post pics. I'll post anything you want. You name the drawing and I'll post it. I have zero to fear and a lot to be proud of. I love to show the process at work. No one else does this. I like to do it. I have no idea why it involves personal attacks on me and my family. This reaction is something very unique to BS. I have great relationships with a lot of other designers.

They are boats! Boats, that's all in all their beautiful varieties.
Just catching up on this thread from the weekend; thanks for sharing your work Bob. Btw, my kids bought me your book for Father's Day (how did they know?:wink). The more I read and learn about yacht design, the more I appreciate this thread.
 
#317 ·
To my eye that RS version is by far the better looking. A 40-ish foot version would be fabulous and it takes no imagining as the proportions are such that it could easily be that size - as long as you ignore the interior plans. :wink
 
#316 ·
Since I can't figure out how to start a new thread on an iPad (iPhone doesn't work at all) I'm gonna paste this question here for ALL steel gurus to comment upon.

............

I have a DC only boat. NO AC. Steel hull.

I have a Volvo MD7A diesel. 12 start batt, and 12 house bank. They are charged through a Balmar Duo Charge.

Long story short, engine has been reinstalled with new mounts, shaft isolator, and control panel.

All works well, except my new bottom paint is blistering and zincs seem to have taken a lot of wear in the short 2 months she was in the water. So I am questioning everythinng.

With all wiring disconnected there is about 35 ohms from the Hull to the engine

My DC ground wiring, through the panel, (excluding bilge pumps, etc.) has about 0.4 ohms to the hull with meter zeroed properly.

My sense is that rather than chase down all ground connections I should simply bond the engine to the hull.

From the reading I have done it sounds like there is no consensus on which approach to use, but also no strong objections either way? But important to pick one way or the other?

Secondly, does this condition sound conducive to starting the paint to blister? Some blisters had a bit of rust in them, ameron 302 zinc primer.

Thanks.

I should add that before removing and reinstalling the engine I had very little wear on zincs. When I removed the engine I found the engine mounts to be "interesting" to say the least. They were hung below the rails and protruded through, it is very possible, perhaps likely the engine was previously grounded through this screwball mount system. I lowered the rails and now have a traditional mount system, and isolated.

As I said, questioning everything. Don't much like having to grind off a bunch of newly applied bottom paint, yet again!
 
#339 · (Edited)
The engine may not be the problem. When Mike took over the barge Iceberg Bay, he was told " This barge sure eats zincs."
He checked the power supply and found a 440 volt cable laying in the water, leading to the barge. He tied it up, well above high tide, and next time the barg was hauled out, the zincs looked almost new. A freind of his had an aluminium boat tied inside a wooden fishboat, in fresh water.The woden fishboat had a 120 volt cord ran acroos his deck whichledo tsome serious corrosion of hius zincs and hull. The folowing year he tied outside the woden boat and had no cords ran across his deck . The corrosion problem disappeared. Check around your boat for extension cords laying in the water.
Some hang zincs from wires while they are in hot marinas .Solder the wire to the zinc strap to guarantee a good conection.
I remeber an aliminium boat in an electricaly hot marina which had zincs hanging from her stanchions. You could se the zincs bubbling, which caused some to claim' She wont last long. "That was 1973 and the boat is still doing fine.
If you completely isolate your engine from the electrics and the problem continues, the engine is not the problem. If this had been an aluminium boat, the corrosion would have happened much more rapidly and been far more severe.
Too much zinc can cause paint to blister. In that case the steel under the paint wil show no sign of rust. If you smell thinner when you pop a blister, then thinner entrapment was the problem. A freshly painted boat needs a bit of time for the thinner to evaporate from the epoxies.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top