Bob Perry's Carbon Cutters - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 905 Old 06-02-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Mod Note: I've copied all the photo posts on this project over from the Steel vs Fiberglass thread.. this way we can follow this project without the distractions of that thread, which, btw, remains intact.
Ron (Faster)



John:
I am a bit ahead of you on that. Right now we are building four, semi-traditional 43' cutters at Jim Betts yard in Anacortes,WA and they will be all carbon fiber and epoxy. They are all for one client. We will use some e glass down in the keel to build up some thickness. Theses will not be light boats but the structure will be very light. The light structure will allow us a B/D of at leat 43% and we should have some very stiff and fine sailing offshore boats. We are using carbon fiber because we believe it is the very best material for the job. We are also using titanium in many areas including the rudder pintels. To my knowledge there has never been a traditional type design like this built using carbon fiber before. Our hull laminate weighs 1.46 lbs. per sq. ft. and is far in excessive of what we need for strength. No fallard, these will not be cheap boats and my client could care a less about resale value. I am now working on a 32' version also to be built in CF for another client. There is plenty of room for all sorts of approaches.





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Last edited by Faster; 10-14-2015 at 07:45 PM.
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post #2 of 905 Old 06-03-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

I'm just back from the yard . Fun ****. I had a long chat with Jim Betts about repairing boats. Jim has built a ot of alu boats and he is very good at it but he thinks they can be the hardest to repair in remote areas. He says steel would be next because you need an electrical source. He thinks grp is easiest because you can quickly slap on a patch with no power on hand. Each carbon cutter will come with a WEST System repair kit.

As for titanium being so difficult to work with Jim says not so. Jim says it's easier to work with than 316 s.s..

Structural floors have eight layers of bi-axial and 0-90 carbon over 2" of foam rolling over the top to make an "L". This will be glasses in the hull and then uni direction carbon will be run across the top of each floor and taped up onto the inside of the hull. This will be then covered with more bi-axial carbon.

There will always be semi informed nay sayers. They have dogged me my entire career. But I'll tell you this, there has never been a cruising boat built to this standard before. Jim and I discuss details and at one point this morning we just looked at each other and smiled. I said, "We are going where no man has gone before." Jim said, " I know."

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post #3 of 905 Old 06-05-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Fun at the Betts yard yesterday. Each completed piece gets weighed and the weight is compared to what I have in the initial weight estimate and corrected if needed. So far my estimates are very close. No worries at this stage.
Completed floor.


Working the carbon fiber fabric into the L flange of the floor.


Floors being vacuum bagged with vacuum about half complete at this point.

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post #4 of 905 Old 06-05-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

I like this photo. It shows the excess epoxy being squeezed through the laminate and peel ply and oozing out into the absorbent layer. Hard to have any voids when you can monitor the bond like this.

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post #5 of 905 Old 06-15-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

" The only good designer of steel cruising boats is one who understands the material,"
OK, then Brent show us some of your design work.

Here is some of mine as rendered by my buddy Jody as we finalize the cockpit details for the carbon cutters. I like to use every design tool available and having the 3d images allows far more refinement in the design process. I can post hundreds of photos of my boats and I can post as many drawings as time allows. Brent seems to not be able to do this.

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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

I have to show off some of Jody's latest work on the cutter project. I can't help myself. He is so damn good!




Come on Brent show us the best design work you have.
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post #7 of 905 Old 06-16-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass


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post #8 of 905 Old 06-19-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Fun day at the boat yard. Real people doing real things and me watching them. Here is a pic of the plug covered in Taconic film that is the barrier coat that prevents the hull lam rsin from bleeding back into the plug.



The trailing edge of the keel is now bonded on with carbon. The plastic you see is the beginnings of the vacuum bag that has to be ready and in place the moment the last carbon pass is on. This pic shows the last of the Taconic film being applied before the "peel ply" layer. The peel ply will make it easy (prayers) to get the hull off the plug and this layer will stay in the boat until it is removed later. Nothing sticks to it so you cannot leave it in the hull.

With Taconic film and, peel ply in place the first layer of carbon goes on, lapping over the bottom of the keel and up the other side 4". The total thickness of the laminate at the bottom of gthe keel will be 1.25" of solid carbon and e glass.

No BS, just high quality custom boat building. Maybe not Boeing level high tech but not bad for Anacortes. I was impressed by the teamwork and skill shown. I am very confident. I felt quite humble as I left today seeing those guys working that way and knowing that we are producing a fabulous boat. Without that crew I'd be lost.
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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Here are some more pics of work today:



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Re: Steel vs Fiberglass

Denda:
The first layer is 0-90.
Did not ask how much time they had but all the panels were cut and stacked and the bag was all ready to go. I think the plan was to have the inner skin layer on the keel fin complete today.
They had the big door open and fans running. I'd guess it was maybe 75 degs in the shop. Maybe a bit less. I was not hot. I was not cold.

I'll guess the width of the roll is between 44" and 48" I did not measure.
No, they are not doing the entire layup in one shot. They do half the hull on Tuesday and the other half on Thursday.

We should meet at the yard some day.

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