Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Blogs               
Boat Search (new)




Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Sailboat Design and Construction
User Name
Password
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 Like this article?  Digg It!  or   Bookmark it!
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2007
sailhog's Avatar
sailhog sailhog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hilton Head Island, South Carolina
Posts: 1,980
Rep Power: 3
sailhog has a spectacular aura aboutsailhog has a spectacular aura about
Sasha,
So downwind the bow needs to act like a sled to keep it from pig-rooting... I can get my mind around that. My C30 is mighty noisy below when sailing through chop, and I've always attributed it to the wide beam and the shape of the hull below the waterline toward the bow. Noticed your avatar has a plumb bow.
Thanks, Captain...
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2007
seabreeze_97 seabreeze_97 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 390
Rep Power: 3
seabreeze_97 is on a distinguished road
Not buying it. It all sounds good til you consider looking at it from another angle. The boat with overhangs has a progressive, building dampening effect from reserve buoyancy. So, as it hits a wave, the force isn't all at once, but as the bow digs deeper into the wave, more of the reserve is tapped, thus dampening the impact gradually. The plumb bow has less impact with a wave, but also lacks buoyancy, so it will tend to plow. The broader overhanging bow looks like the clear loser in the drag comparison, but plowing drains speed too.
As the wave moves back along the hull, the bow will pitch up as the center of buoyancy is encountered, but a boat with overhangs will, while lifting the bow, also utilize the damping effects of an overhanging stern. In other words, the stern will settle or squat some as the lever arm moves back. So, as a consequence, as the hull lifts at the bow, it settles at the stern, smoothly with progressive resistance. This also limits the height the bow rises as the wave moves back. While the angle of motion is a given amount, the total deviation from center is divided between the bow and the stern. A plumb bow and stern, cannot do this nearly as well. As the lever arm moves back on a plumb bow, the wider (and typically flatter) higher buoyancy stern exerts all it's resistance at once. Ever leveraged something that was loose on one end (the bow) and rigid on the other (the plumb stern)? Since the stern is so much more buoyant from the outset, it doesn't settle into the water as the lever arm moves back. As a result, the stern acts like a hinge point on the water. As the wave moves back, the exerted leverage of the wave on the higher buoyancy stern, forces the bow to lift higher as a result, then fall further as the wave moves past the center of buoyancy. More of the angle of pitch is at the bow, with little at the stern. The sharp, low resistance plumb bow then slices deeper into the next wave perhaps submarining as the non-compliant stern rides over the wave and leverages the bow down hard. Having insufficient buoyancy to counter the stern, it plows even more. This begs the question. Since the wave moving past the hull is essentially a constant, why would you eliminate or reduce reserve buoyancy in the bow and have an excess in the stern? Great for racing. The fine, plumb bow slices cleanly through the water, and the high buoyancy stern keeps the boat up on the bow wave. I can see where Jeff's champion would be better for max speed in reasonably calm conditions, but toss and tumble? Forget it. I'll stick with some overhangs. Having been on one of these plumb bow/stern jobs recently in some gusty/slightly beyond choppy conditions, and feeling like I was going to be slingshot from the cockpit due to the pitching motion, I can say she was fast (all sorts of zippy in the initial calm, but not fast enough (to outrun the weather when things got more interesting....and it really wasn't that bad weather-wise), and not comfortable at all, because at the trough of each wave it was BANG, BANG, BANG, and it got a little damp too.
Thoroughbreds are beautiful and fast, but I'll stick with my Quarter Horse any day.

Last edited by seabreeze_97 : 10-21-2007 at 04:57 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-21-2007
chris_gee chris_gee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 469
Rep Power: 3
chris_gee is on a distinguished road
I am not sure that the idea of a fixed hinge at the stern is accurate. I would think that the fulcrum would be further forward, at the centre of the horizontal plane.
As the bow comes up this would be opposed by the greater stern plane giving a smaller downward movement. While this depends on moments and the distance from the centre of buoyancy effects the angular movement, it seems quite possible that the rise of the bow is limited by the plumb stern.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-15-2007
tharper tharper is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7
Rep Power: 0
tharper is on a distinguished road
Jeff,
I just read your very detailed post on the impact of the morc rules on performance cruising boat design.
I'm in the market for a performance/cruiser and I've been looking at 3 of the boats that you referred to:
Santana 30/30
S2 9.1
Kirby 30
Prior to reading your post I was unaware of the morc influence on these boat designs but I had by coincidence identified these 3 as candidates.
My mission is to sail the carib for several months or longer. I will make 3-5 day crossings and then layup until i want to change scenery and the weather cooperates. I expect to single hand much of the time.
In your post you referred to the Santana and the S2 as examples of late generation designs and the Kirby 30 as a middle generation boat. I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on that and describe the differences between the middle and late generations. Also, for my mission would you think any one of these boats would have any particular advantage? Or would you recommend something different altogether?
Thanks in advance,
Tom
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seakindly Boats vs.the rest rmf1643 Buying a Boat 8 06-20-2006 08:18 PM
What can you tell from the numbers? brazilnut Buying a Boat 9 11-18-2004 01:44 AM
Winning the Battle of Motion Sickness Our Readers Write Miscellaneous 0 11-19-2003 07:00 PM
Winning the Battle of Motion Sickness Our Readers Write Miscellaneous 0 11-19-2003 07:00 PM
Winning the Battle of Motion Sickness Our Readers Write Miscellaneous 0 11-19-2003 07:00 PM

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8
(c) Sailnet 2000-2006