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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > Boat Review and Purchase Forum > Sailboat Design and Construction
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  #1  
Old 10-27-2007
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Portuguese Sail boats

Portugal has a long time nautical tradition.

While talking to a friend, he pointed me to this blog, where the poster only posts photos of Portuguese designed boats. Some are trully beautifull boats that don't exist anymore.

The poster got his pictures at the Portuguese museum of the Navy (Museu da Marinha), that Valiente had the opportunity to visit.

This museum is renown for havig one of the richest collections of model boats in the world.

Scroll down the blog (sorry in Portuguese again), but fill your eyes with these beautifull models of Portuguese Sailboats, Yachts, Frigates etc.

See photos here...
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Very nice, Giu. I worked for a sailor the other day and we got talking about the Smithsonian museum in Washington, DC. Sailors need to allow ample time to view all of their displays of ship models, primarily sailing. In fact, it's best to send the uninterested on a day trip elsewhere as there is no telling how long you may wish to stay. Thanks, again.
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Every time I go to that museum I lose notion of time and they need to kick me out...

I have a few people I know there, the lady that makes the ropes, and I've used that friendship on my models, too.
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Old 10-29-2007
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U.S. Naval Academy

The naval academy in Annapolis has a large display of model ships as well. Especially interesting are the ships carved by prisoners of war out of ivory and bone.
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Old 10-29-2007
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Alex,

That is a great resource, but I was wondering about your comment that these are all Portuguese designed. There were a couple of models that looked very much like famous historic vessels such as the Herreschoff designed Glorianna, or the Nicholson designed 'Halloween' and English cutter 'Joilee' Brice' of Fastnet Fame.

Jeff
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Jeff, the first yachts you see are models of boats that belonged to King Carlos of Portugal (1863 to 1908) and he was the last before King of Portugal (see here)

King Carlos of Portugal was a sail fanatic and he would comission boats from all over the World, but this I am sure he oreded many built for him in Portugal, and built in portugal.

I also know that he never sold a boat, and many either sank or were destroyed when in 1910 when we became a Republic.

Some of the boats still exist and Amelia, his most famous yacht is still there.

He was know for getting his ideas from his Royal cousins in the UK.

However, and since that was the "line" of boats in the end of the 1800's early 1900's it could very well be that his draghtsmen got ideas from Herreshoff, whoi knows, or maybe Herreshoff designed it for him...???

Nicolson was later than that, so it couldn't be.

nevertheless wish we could make boats like that today...yes sir....

One day, time permiting I will go there and see who the designers were. But pretty sure most were designe in the Alfeite Atelier de MArinha
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Mea Culpa, besides for mispelling Jolie Brise, I was mistaken about where she was built. Jolie Brise was actually built in France. Jolie Brise won quite a few early Fastnet Races, including the 1929, which I believe was the race in which Halloween (later known as Cotton Blossom IV) set the course record which was not broken until Ted Turner's Tenacious broke the record during the ill fated 1979 regatta.

There is one case that appears to have a model of Halloween posed next to Jolie Brise (not to scale since Halloween was roughly 76 feet and Jolie Brise was 56 or so). The model of the lateen rigged workboat with the classic Portuguese eye at the bow is very similar to the working watercraft of Genoa Italy and the Ligorian coastal workboats widely used at least as far south as La Spezia area.

Jeff

Last edited by Jeff_H; 10-29-2007 at 06:10 PM.
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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Mea Culpa, besides for mispelling Jolie Brise, I was mistaken about where she was built. Jolie Brise was actually built in France. Jolie Brise won quite a few early Fastnet Races, including the 1929, which I believe was the race in which Halloween (later known as Cotton Blossom IV) set the course record which was not broken until Ted Turner's Tenacious broke the record during the ill fated 1979 regatta.

There is one case that appears to have a model of Halloween posed next to Jolie Brise (not to scale since Halloween was roughly 76 feet and Jolie Brise was 56 or so). The model of the lateen rigged workboat with the classic Portuguese eye at the bow is very similar to the working watercraft of Genoa Italy and the Ligorian coastal workboats widely used at least as far south as La Spezia area.

Jeff
Ah yes absolutely right, in fact here is a story for you.

That boat's origins and roots and canoe type arrangment, with the eye, is in fact Fenician, and was taken by the Fenicians to Malta, where it took the name Daica.

Then as the Romans came over to Portugal, they brought that boat with them, but until then was only a downwind boat. with oars for upwind.

In Portugal, with the invention of the Latin sail, and the fact that our seas have more swell and higher waves than the Mediterranean, and in the old days they launch from the beaches, the bow grew up to avoid the waves, and the sails became lateen sails.

However, the origin of the boat, in Malta is still there, and from there it went to Italy, also by the hand of the Romans. But the design is fenician.

I lived in Malta 1 year, and was astonished when I used to see "my boats" there. Decided to investigate and found the story behind them.

Google Malta and sure enough, you will see what I mean.
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Old 10-30-2007
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Alex,

Thank you. That is very interesting. I had figured that the rough origin of the type had to be coastal trading vessels. I had not made the link to Phoenecian trading craft design. It does make sense since the Phoenecians used early forms of Lateen rigs.

These boats made their way to the Amercias as well. Portuguese sailors in and around Boston built what was known coloquially as 'Port-u-gee' boats which evolved into a variety of late 19th century working craft and on the West Coast there were a variety of boats called by a derogatory name for their Italian origins.

I also find it interesting that you and I are both seem very interested in traditional watercraft and design history, and yet have chosen to end up sailing some of the more modern vessels (Guilietta more than Synergy) in the Sailnet fleet.

Jeff
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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Alex,

Thank you. That is very interesting. I had figured that the rough origin of the type had to be coastal trading vessels. I had not made the link to Phoenecian trading craft design. It does make sense since the Phoenecians used early forms of Lateen rigs.

These boats made their way to the Amercias as well. Portuguese sailors in and around Boston built what was known coloquially as 'Port-u-gee' boats which evolved into a variety of late 19th century working craft and on the West Coast there were a variety of boats called by a derogatory name for their Italian origins.

I also find it interesting that you and I are both seem very interested in traditional watercraft and design history, and yet have chosen to end up sailing some of the more modern vessels (Guilietta more than Synergy) in the Sailnet fleet.

Jeff
Jeff, thanks, absolutely right...

I am in love not only for the traditional but also the history that surrounds and gave origin to these boats.

It interests me for many reasons, some are the fact that we, Portuguese were once the super-power of the World, and lost everything due to "bad managment" by our Kings and the large Lisbon Earthquake of 1755I think after it the Portuguese population that survived the disater (it was not the earthquake that killed them, but the diseas after, the plague), was only 1 million...


And we were a super power because we ruled the seas, just like US does now...once you rule the sea, you rule the World.

Also as I have to travel abroad a lot, that increases the value I give my Country and its rich history.

Finally, living in the sea all my life, blessed by good weather all year round, one doesn't have to do much to be exposed to boats and such...add that an inside call for the sea...there you go.

Now....intersteing you mentioned the fact that we sail latest tech boats, and love the old stuff....I think its exactly because we love hi-tech that we are in love with the traditional, or may be the opposite.....once you're exposed to one end of the spectrum....you do it, so un-intentionally you admire the opposite end of the spectrum...

I also think a good sailor should keep an open minded...I hate those that are attached to the past only and all new stuff is bad, or the ones that are so into tech, that a good old clipper is a bad thing.....I hate "un-flexibles"...if you know what I mean...those that were never inteligent enough to recognize that times change, and you can still have a foot in the past, and use a computer today, or admire a carbon fiber mast....The fossils is what I call them.....

I see it like this....I'm married to speed, but keep old traditional as my mistress....

And what is funny, is I have been sometimes accused or stereoptyped as "a traditional boat hater" because I sail a fast boat, when its exactly the opposite..

You'd be amazed of what I know about old traditional boats...from my side of the "river"....

Last edited by Giulietta; 10-30-2007 at 10:00 AM.
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