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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-18-2007
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Integral ballast/battery

Probably this has been tried before, with disasterous results ... but I was thinking, "It's a shame batteries are so heavy, so cruisers have to get by with undersized power storage. All that lead. Sigh."

Hey, wait a minute -- sailboats are FULL of bloody lead. It's called ballast, right? So why not make a nice deep bilge, line it with polycarbonate, hang lead plates with separators, and pour in a hundred gallons of sulfuric acid? The plates may need to be shaped to fit the bilge/keel, and you'd want baffles & restrainers to stop em flapping around too much, and they'd have to be modular so you could yank out a dead cell at need, and you'd need a good sealing cover with venting....

But youze is smart people. Let's see if you can think of ways to make this idea practical! I mean, if yer gonna schlep three tons of lead all over the place, it may as well be working for you, right?
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Old 11-18-2007
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Because mixing battery acid with salt water makes a toxic gas it may not be a good idea. It would be hard to guarantee a dry bilge and waterproof container for the acid so they will mix at some point.
All the best,
Robert Gainer
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Last edited by Tartan34C : 11-18-2007 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 11-18-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tartan34C View Post
Because mixing battery acid with salt water makes a toxic gas it may not be a good idea.
It's called "chlorine gas" DEADLY!!! It also kills the battery.

I'm planning to put 2 group 31's or 8D's (might be too big) in my under couch/dry storage areas, placed even w/ the bulkhead/mast
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Old 11-18-2007
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Would make for an interesting round-up or capsize situation. Scaaaaaary!
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Old 11-18-2007
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Also, replacing the batteries would be a gold-plated bitch...
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Old 11-18-2007
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All this being said, I truly admire the OP's "out-of-the-box" thinking. We need more of that; because for every new innovation, there might be 100 precursor ideas that never fly.
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Old 11-18-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
Let's see if you can think of ways to make this idea practical! I mean, if yer gonna schlep three tons of lead all over the place, it may as well be working for you, right?

Hey how about a very small nuclear reactor???????

And everybody, re-read the original post. First, Bob said that it was impractical on the face of it.
Second, he asked for ideas of how to make the idea, or some variation of it, practical.

Third, he says we're a pretty smart bunch, and the best we can do is "dis" him and his idea?

I know, it's mostly fun and jest. I'm not chastising anyone It's jus tthat I really respect someone who is brave enough to put out a possibly outrageous idea and see where it flies ....
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Old 11-18-2007
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Personally, I'm in favor of a small air cooled pebble-bed nuclear reactor rather than batteries... you never have to worry about recharging or running out of power...
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Old 11-18-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Personally, I'm in favor of a small air cooled pebble-bed nuclear reactor rather than batteries... you never have to worry about recharging or running out of power...
Also cabin heating in winter. & endless hot water for showers. Don't you think you might get hassled at certain ports-of-call, tho? What with the nuclear reactor on board. Puts New Zealand right off the itinerary.

All legitimate worries. But we already have AGM and gel cells that are sealed, and we can certainly design a lexan or polcarbonate wet cell housing that water cannot infiltrate. Then it's simply a matter of locating any vents or exposed terminals above/away from water exposure. This is not a difficult technical problem.

Rounding up or knockdowns, no more a problem than with existing battery systems. And if you got water 4' deep belowdecks, your batteries are the least of your worries.

One challenge would be modularity and transferability: there's no profit in making a different ballast cell to fit each part of the keel, or for each model of boat. So say boatmakers agreed to a standardized cell dimension, say 18"lx12"wx15"h. Builders leave cavities in their bilges or ballast forms to accept these modular cells, and they provide routing for vents and waterproof cabling.

One cell that size would supply about 1700 AH at 2.1 VDC (8-hour discharge rate). You may want six in series, or you might want 6 or 12V cells in a parallel array, which would be useful if you had to cut out a couple. Each such cell would weigh about 325 lbs: heavy, but nothing two strapping lads couldn't lift out & dolly to a hatchway.

Advantages: battery center of mass is as low as possible & right along the keel, balanced longitudinally. Boatmakers can incorporate batt weight into the performance traits of their craft, sure of their weight and location. Batts consume no additional space below, always a big deal with sailboats. Batts are secured and not prone to tipping or shifting beyond the motion of the boat. More capacity means you can coast longer times between charging, less deep-cycling so longer life, and you have a much higher charging rate off gensets or diesels. Big batteries are happy batteries. Marinas around the world could carry identical cells for swap-out.

Disadvantages:
Access needs to be good. Waterproofing needs to be perfect. Hard to retrofit. Cost over existing standard-dimension cells, like T105s. Some risk during hull puncture, tho again, I'd argue that in such case, your batts are not your #1 problem.

I suppose one major disadvantage would be that few sailboats are equipped to charge such large cells using solar or wind. Self-discharge could represent a hurdle, esp. in warm climates. You'd need a generating capacity worthy of the storage: possibly impellers while underway, solar and wind at mooring. Heh -- flexible solar films are coming! Already boatbuilders are working with integrating them into decks, maybe even into sails.

Okay, flog away. I truly enjoy the critiques.
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Last edited by bobmcgov : 11-18-2007 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 11-18-2007
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I don't think you're completely off-base at all here. If I didn't have diesel keel tankage, I'd have batteries there instead, and if I had that many batteries, I'd consider a diesel-electric boat.
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