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Old 03-25-2009
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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Tak....you talking two people in the shower or the berth ?

One thing to consider here is location. I'm sure, for instance that if your cruising ground is PNW US/Canada the coziness of the pullman is not going to be an issue but spend a few weeks in the Australian summer and it could be another story.

As I said before my preference is either a forward island or a foward v-berth that you can sleep in with your feet aft.
Both actually

I cant speak to other boats but my boat ventilation has a Lewmar 60 over head, two opening ports on each side of the stateroom and with the head door left open, allows for another opening port and a smaller overhead Lewmar.

That said I liked the Queen centerline forward berth I saw at the boatshow on a 47 Shannon. That would work. I dont think I would like aft berths.

BTW, Tayana 37s offered a Pullman as well as an option.
s/v Mahalo
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Old 03-25-2009
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Okay, here's what I wanted to mention last night but didn't have the time. Sorry about that, Ron...

In designs of bygone decades, V-berths used to be the "owners" bunks, i.e. the most spacious/comfortable bunks on the boat where the owners/parents/adults would bed down. Often the head was found immediately aft of the v-berth cabin, to one side or the other, with a nice hanging locker opposite the head.

At least, this was generally the case in aft-cockpit boats. Center cockpit boats were usually configured with an owner's cabin aft, but they still usually had a nice spacious v-berth cabin as well for guests.

The design trends lately have been toward longer boats with finer entries at the bow, and fewer and fewer center-cockpit boats in the mid-size range anymore. I've been aboard quite a few of these boats at the shows over the past many years and as this trend has taken hold, I've noticed a related trend appearing: The ever-shrinking v-berth.

I have been aboard boats in the 40-foot range with smaller v-berths bunks than our 31 footer. This is not just a result of the designers trying to incorporate a bit of "walk-around" the berth (by which I mean access to the bunk from the sides, not just the trailing edge). It is as much a result of the fact that there is very little volume in the bow sections of a modern fine-entry boat.

Consequently, many of the v-berths today are barely more than single bunks, unlike the spacious doubles of the past that were typical even in boats as small as mid-20-footers.

This is not all bad. Many of the boats that suffer from this problem, now incorporate an "owner's" cabin aft, under the cockpit (which accounts for all that freeboard), often with a second aft head. So the v-berth has become more of a guest or kids cabin.

Getting back to the topic of this thread, the point I want to make is that pullman-style berths would actually be a much better choice for many of the fine-bowed modern designs. Especially those that are incorporating two heads into the design. With a pullman, that second head can be moved up into the less voluminous bow sections -- the toilet, sink and shower stall are better suited to this tight triangular shape anyway.

The standard complaints about pullmans (access for the outboard individual when the bunk is shared) is a bit moot because the modern designs typically have their owner's cabin aft. The pullman becomes a guest or kids cabin, with the added advantage that there is enough headroom for an over-under bunk that can be used for family arrangements.

And with the second head aft, there really is no worry about being able to use the lav while underway. The forward head would largely get used at anchor or on the downwind legs.

Maybe in coming years we will see a resurgence of the pullman berth?

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Old 03-25-2009
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Absolutely agree that V berths have become downsized of late... generally the lengths are fine, but what's lacking is room at the bottom of the V for two pairs of feet. The low to mid 30ish foot French designs were the biggest offenders. As much as the finer bows are to blame, I believe that as they pushed everything to the ends of the boat to create (on paper) a good looking layout the V berth was crammed into the bow. A decent V berth, regardless of accessibility, "island" style, whatever, should have at least 2 feet of width across the foot. Many pinch down to a real V.

Our aft berth is a pullman of sorts, but access is only via the upper half, ie the entire inboard side is not open. Some contortions are required if the outboard person has to get up in the middle of the night, but we look at anything that requires some agility will perhaps help us to maintain some of that as we get older.

As for forward heads, I would agree that they're great from a layout perspective, and fine in port, but probably need to be backed up with a second head for use at sea.

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Old 03-25-2009
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Originally Posted by JohnRPollard View Post

Are you repeating yourself around the house, too?

Actually, I'm not sorry this thread got revived because I have some very important additional comments I'd like to make.
Oops!!! Dang, at least I am consistent! It is not me walking around the house repeating myself that should scare you... it is when I start answering myself!!

It appears that I am guilty of pressing the New POst button and answering without realizing that I had already posted an incredibly well thought out and intelligent reply!!!! HEHE!

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Old 04-05-2009
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I have a design in mind. My mind. A single hander's boat, but comfortably sleeps two, can accommodate 4, feed 6, and have 8 over for drinks. The bow has a substantial anchor well, perhaps measuring 3-4 ft. fore-&-aft and holds two anchors at the ready...
My primary 44lb Bruce with 250' of 5/16" stainless HT chain. My secondary Rocna, slightly smaller with 50' of 5/16" stainless HT chain coupled to 200' of 5/8" nylon rode.

Aft of this is a dedicated storage area with a large hatch on deck. It opens up to take your wet sails, lines, fenders, and miscellaneous rigging. Just with-in arms reach with be a selection of stainless, certified swivels, snatch-blocks, gibs-clips, shackles, caribeeners, etc, at the ready...Naturally, it drains into the bilge.

Aft of this is your owners PULLMAN berth to a chosen side. It's so far aft, it's huge. the other side incorporates the large hanging locker and associated mini/multi storage boxes, all naturally ventellated of course.

I'm a traditionalist, so the main salon endows two strait settees, port & stbd, each long enough to sleep on (say 7') with lee cloths at the ready...The main salon table is bulkhead mounted. Outboard & above the settees with be storage for books and other essentials.

Still moving aft. One side houses the galley, appropriate allowance catered for here, because food & wine are the instruments of love...
The other side has a huge stand-up (or sit-down) chart table, again allowing for ocean voyage chart catalogue capacities.

Now you are at the companionway and you have a choice. My preference is that the port side houses the dedicated shower compartment, which of course doubles as the foul weather locker. The stbd side is the single ample sized head. Toilet paper always dry on this boat!

So lets add up the sizes...4+4+7+7+4+7= 33'
Allow for a bit of S&S graceful overhangs...3+2=5'

Total 33' + 5' + 38'

I believe this post qualifies because I mentioned the word PULLMAN
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Old 04-07-2009
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Sounds reasonable except I think 7' lee may be tuff.. Unless you are willing to tear apart a stock boat. You may need to do that anyway to get the pullman ..
s/v Mahalo
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Last edited by TAK; 04-07-2009 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 04-10-2009
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